Board Talk #15 with Michael Rosato and Quinn Spadafora — Behind The Scenes Of Board Lords 10, 3 Months On The 16x12 TB2, and Japanese Board Lords

Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We had forgotten that Daniel is literally the best in the world at that specific grip type. Like that pinch that you jump off of is just perfectly his thing. And me and Michael watching through the many versions that we had finalized before that we posted it, we were just like in awe. Every time he would grab that pinch, Michael would be like, look at how he's doing that. And like he just takes his time getting it so well. Like he is squeezing the juice out of it. It is wild.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Welcome to the Test Piece podcast. This podcast is about all things high-level climbing. How to go from good to great. I'm your host, Joshua Horsley. I've been climbing for over 30 years. We recently updated our Patreon, and now you get exclusive content from the guests that you love. You get your episodes before everyone else, and they're ad-free. Try it out now at patreon.com/slash test piece with a free seven-day trial. Okay, let's start the show. We are back. Uh you guys, these are usually my favorite episodes to record. Uh, and that's because we've got OG Board Talker. OG. OG, stop laughing. I can't get through my intro if you guys are laughing. OG Board Talker? Board Whisperer, maybe? Yeah, I like that one. I like that one actually. And everyone's favorite board lord editor and co-host, Quinn Spadfora. Welcome back, you guys. Good, good to have you back. Feels like it's been a while. It has. Yeah. It's gonna be a minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

It's been so long that Quinn, you uh tore your thumb off, got reattached, and are climbing V13 again. It's like uh it was a cycle that maybe maybe that was only like a three-week thing, or maybe it was three months. I don't know. How's how are you doing? Are you are you back to full Quinn strength?

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, so I got my thumb torn off and it's been replaced with a gorilla thumb. They put a monkey thumb on. Not just your big toe or something. Oh God, please no. But yeah, thumb is healing up. Um been climbing on the TB2 a fair bit uh as of late, like the past three weeks especially. I've been kind of like getting back on the on the board. Um, but yeah, it's like really kind of there. It's the only thing that I'm still avoiding at the moment is like these really wide grip positions. And even then, like I'm I'm sort of testing the waters there, like starting to grab some wider pinches. Um, but I don't feel like I'm that held back at the moment. It definitely is a bit stiff, uh, some decreased mobility potentially, but uh mostly that's due to some like scar tissue buildup. And I think it just will take some time for that to to break down and it'll it'll get back to where it was.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

It always takes longer than you want to, but in hindsight, it's usually not that long. But I did notice that in the board lords number 10 where there was people climbing to kind of like showcase the moves. I felt like I saw more Noah and Sean and less Quinn and Michael, and it made me kind of sad, you guys. I just so I was worried that maybe you were still hurt, you know. That's what I was gonna say because yeah, it was sad.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Like we had to do because I was that's what I was gonna say in the beginning when I was about to insert something there, is that we we have both been kind of taking a little hiatus from the boards, like I was feeling tweaky myself, and you know, I don't know, it wasn't the same without Quinn. So I just like took a little break and had those guys fill in for us, and uh they did great. They were okay, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

They were okay. Uh I I don't know, Michael. I've been watching your Instagram. I feel like you've been sending pretty hard outside. So I don't know, whatever you're like you know, feeling tweaky, maybe just go outside and crush 8B. I don't know. That sounds okay. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I don't think there's any correlation with boards and being good. I don't I don't get it at all. I I take a break and then I go send shit outside. But I think I just overdo it, you know. That's easy to do on a board, but Michael's good outside though.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

He I mean what Michael, what was the 12 up in uh Chaos?

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Uh the Shining. Uh I went up to the show. Isn't that 13?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I thought that was a 13. Let him.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

I think it got put up as 13. I I wouldn't say it's 13, not quite 13.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I think it's it's getting 12 these days. Yeah. Um, but when Michael climbs it, it's 8B.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

You know why it's getting 12s? It's getting 12 because people spend so much time getting strong on the board and they think it's easy. That's what happened.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

Yeah. I don't know. I think it got put up. There's alternate beta now and all that shit. So I guess it it kind of, but but it's a great one. I it's in upper upper chaos, which this this season was the first time I'd gone all the way up there. Um and yeah, I like thank God because I so I went up, I almost did it first session, and just wasn't able to pull it together, and then went up another time. And I was like, dude, if I don't do it this time, I'm not coming back up here. Like, fuck this.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Yeah, how long is that hike? I I always wanted to see that thing that was like, I'm not gonna hike to chaos and then hike like to chaos again, is what it seemed like.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

It's it's brutal. For people who aren't used to or know Colorado hikes and whatnot, there's there's kind of two camps of the type of hiking. So you've got like Rocky Mountain, which is more of this prolonged gradual incline sort of thing that's usually just kind of takes a long time to get up there, and then you've got like the Lincoln stuff where you've got Lincoln and the aerials where you're just going straight up, and but but it doesn't take as long. So I am much more I I prefer the things that you can get over with quickly, like Lincoln and the aerials and stuff like that. Like it is way harder, but you get it over with in like 30 minutes, and so upper upper, it's kind of a what I would say, like an hour, hour and a half, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah, maybe even a little longer. But it's it is one of the more beautiful places I've ever been in my whole life. It is crazy that we hike out there and climb. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

It's dense up there too, dude. Like so much good stuff up there.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

I wish I had a upper upper to get away from the 90 plus degree heat, because that's like that's that's what you get to do. You are I don't know what that. Yeah, actually, do you guys know what the elevation is up there? It must be freaking sky high.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

It's not, it's not as bad. I think it's 11 something. I don't, I don't think it's I mean, that is sky high. That is high. Yeah, we were talking we're talking about alpha. It's not that bad. Like, we're yeah. I mean, we we've got a uh we've been developing an area that is I think the boulders are at 12, 6.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

I think that's almost 13,000.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yeah, so like we so there's there's levels to the the alpine thing, but yeah, it to the to a normal person, yeah, that's that's freaking up there. And uh, but man, even even up there, I was on the second time I went up, it was just so warm. Like, I was just like, what in the hell? Like I'm done, like I'm done done after this day for alpine season. And so I was really happy to do it and do the boulder. And yeah, I've been telling everybody, like, I'm I'm done with alpine season, like it's just too hot. It's just not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yeah, this summer has been particularly hot in Colorado. It's been insane. Do you guys have air conditioning in the TTC? No, don't bring it up, don't bring it up.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

It's kind of a sore subject. Well, okay, how is that? Okay, we're gonna talk about the TTC. Let's yeah, let's like lead with the bad part. Uh so no, there's no AC. We do very big fans. Big fans, big swamp. We've got like airflow throughout the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Kind of similar.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Yeah, yeah. We got fans everywhere, like it it works, but yeah, it's it's been kind of tough. I'll be that is like the probably the only downside of the facility is it it is is still pretty hot. But I mean it's it's over 100 Gs to AC a freaking warehouse thing like that. So I mean, we're just you know, we're just gonna suck it up and get through it.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah, I remember talking to Carlo about the boulder field, which is massive. It's in SAC, and SAC gets hot. And I was asking him about what AC costs might have been, and he didn't talk about the install, but I think that they penciled it out and thought it would be around 50 grand to cool it for the month, like just the electricity costs. I was like, okay, all right, I hear you. Swamp cooler as it is, yeah, which I don't even know what those actually do, and they don't sound so great, but I know that they're supposed to work. But these don't sound swamp cooler.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Swamp Yeah, dude, truly it it makes it kind of swampy and they're like the humidity is wild, yeah. But it does work, like it brings the it brings the overall temp down, but it adds some humidity at times. But when it's like a hundred degrees outside, it definitely makes it better.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

If we were in Birmingham, like where I am now, and had to use a swamp cooler. Well, A, we wouldn't turn the pump on because you it would just be adding humidity to humidity. But like I think we get away with it because it's drier in Denver, and we and we do. We have like a door on the other side of the place, so it it really does kind of just pass through. So that's what it does. It just adds it, it kind of just cools it with water, and then it it kind of adds moisture to the to the air as well. So it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Do you notice like a difference in what holds feel better like before and after you turn on something with extra humidity? Like, do the wood holds stick more and the plastic holds stick less? Like, is it even noticeable?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Dude, for me, the conditions have been so all over the place. Like, I'll go in there thinking one thing, like, oh yeah, it's it's gonna be like good stick on the wood today, and then it's the exact opposite. So, yeah, it's it's just like hit or miss as to as to how good the conditions are.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Yeah, tough to tell when it's just hot.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah, Michael, do you feel like the humidity makes the plastic or wood feel any better?

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I mean, I think it depends on your skin type too. I think so. We could all have different opinions on this, but I I do think that there's a level to I always found that personally I think wood with a little moisture is better, but I don't know. I feel like plastic's the opposite. So I don't I don't I wouldn't say that I'm like when I flip that switch for the swamp cooler, I'm like, oh yeah, game on. Like it's just fucking hot. It's like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sugar dying. This is the way it is. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Well, yeah, that's because I'm I'm somewhat new to the anti-hydral game in like the last couple of years where I use it so much that it actually has like I realized, oh, I'm too dry. Like I had never recognized that. And I noticed that on the TB2, spraying some of that like rhino spid or moisture onto my hands made a huge difference on the wood holds. And because I was like popping off of them, and because I had never been too dry, I was like, well, this is weird. I'm so dry. Like, isn't that great? And I was like, no, actually, sometimes you want a little bit of moisture, which is so weird to me to think about like I assume wood is less porous than the plastic. Like there's like it seems like a smoother surface. So why would like putting water on your hands make you stick to dude? I don't know how I don't know. I don't know how it works either.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Yeah, it's not well, it probably is less porous, but I yeah, I don't know what it is. I do think that wood, when it's extra dry, like it's freaking difficult. But I also think there's like a break-in period, like natural like oils from your skin, like adding to the wood over time also gives it better texture. So I I I don't really know, but I do think there's like a wood patina. Yeah, it's like the patina. Yeah, I when the when we first put the new holes on the TB2, dude, I was not I wouldn't touch the wooden holes. I was like, these are way too hard. And it's funny because I I used to say, Oh yeah, you gotta you got a new setup, you're yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything's easier, and but that's just not the case. I feel like the plastic is, but the wood is not. It definitely takes a time to kind of have it all settle where it needs to be.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

But yeah, we'd be climbing on the wood holds, and I would be like fearing for my life. It just felt like you were loading up for the most insane dry fire of your life. And uh honestly, yeah, it just took probably, what would you say, Michael, two, three months until it really it kind of hits a sweet spot, I feel like. Um it's been pretty good since then.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah. I think I asked you guys this before, but I'm gonna ask again, you guys have new holds for the TTC with the 12 by 16. Like you the old set, you guys got rid of it. I want to know what happened to that old set, and then kind of like why you guys started new. Like I and I think you feel like I already asked this question, but I forgot. And so I'm gonna ask again.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

What happened to the old set? We sold the old set. I don't know to who. Uh, I do know.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Signed each one, have the boardlord sign each one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

If we weren't so damn busy, I swear, we like missed so many opportunities that we just don't even it we don't even think about it. But anyway, the but we do know where the wall went, the actual wall, the mirror wall that we had, we uh sold to absolute. So those guys have an adjustable uh cool wall in their space, and that's that's where that went. But yeah, the new holds, we just we just wanted fresh plastic. I think we were we were using some very early on. I guess these weren't prototypes, but I don't know. I guess we had we we had had such high traffic on them that it we just felt like it was time to kind of revamp them while we were doing the the 16 because like it didn't it would have been a weird experience to have like these super you know conditioned worn worn holds on the 12 and then you know the wings of the 16 have like fresh plastic. I don't know. I felt I feel like it wouldn't feel super cohesive. So you know we just you just started over with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Makes sense. I mean you guys, if anyone can get a new set, it's you guys.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

I was just gonna say, yeah, we just walk over to the warehouse and grab some new ones.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I like I like the idea of like you're working on some project and you're like, God, I feel like this needs to be fresh, and you just literally screw on a new whole dude. Uh me and uh me and Max Zolotukin and Mark Heal and Daniel Fong had this like project on our spray wall called the Bubble Wrap Project, and it was hard. Yeah, it was kind of a homage to or an ode. Ode, homage, I don't know, to the bubble wrap. Yeah, the the famous bubble wrap project and cats from uh Daniel Woods, probably set by Chris Danielson, it's my guess. Anyways, um that was my homage. Uh one day Max took the holds off and brushed them in the bathroom sink, like clean the bathroom sink, and then he sent. So it worked, but I was about to say you all did it. Yeah, makes sense. Um okay, before we move on, I want to uh thank you again, Quinn, for your Wi-Fi and sponsoring basically every single test piece podcast for the last like dude. Every single board talk, like I kept thinking there's no way it can be at your house again, and then it was. Uh so Wi-Fi is doing great. It's it's excellent. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, thanks for thanks for paying for part of that. This has become the podcast house. I'm sitting in the podcast chair. We've had like Adam, Austin have been, you know, in Colorado for the summer, and so they were crashing on our couch right over here. Oh. And uh all they had to do was roll over in the morning and hop on their podcast and get on with their day.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

By the way, Austin couldn't even manage that. He woke up very late to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Dude, they were doing some late nights in the park. They'd get back and I'd like I'd be in my room asleep, and then I'd hear the door like close and it's two in the morning. They just got back from creature. I'm like, oh my God. Quinn will be complaining about it.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

He's like, he's like, no, I'll get in the house, and it just sounds like I don't know what the hell is going on in there.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

He's like slamming cabinets. I'm like, what is going on? Like, what could you be doing?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah, it seems like you can if you visit and you climb V16, you kind of have to lay your head on the couch. Or is it the couch that makes you climb V16? I wish it was the couch. I'd be sleeping on it every night if that was the case. Oh gosh. Okay, okay. Um back to the to the TTC, the tension

The Start Of Board Lords Season 2

SPEAKER_01 15:51

training center. You guys, uh, Board Lords number 10 came out a little while ago. Actually, last time I was recording Board Talk, I think with Am Shahar, you were saying across from him editing the episode. And I was like, ooh, can't wait to have Quinn and Michael on to really give the big rundown on it. It was awesome, you guys, and it was the season two premiere, is what you guys called it, correct? Uh and it was the first one done in the new tension training center on the new 12 by 16. So it seemed like there was a lot of build-up to kind of like a new season. When did you guys decide to kind of delineate that? Say, like, we're gonna do something special, things are gonna be updated, because I gotta tell you, the the production value was was higher. There was a little bit of a different um it was still board lords, but the segments were a little bit different, and I loved it. And I just want to know when it was kind of decided, like, hey, like let's let's kick this up a notch.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Well, I'll I'll start off. I mean, it was most of it was due to uh well, A, the training center and having to build it, and and then B, it was the 1612 expansion. We uh so we had both of those sort of coming together at the same time, and we were like, well, we're gonna need to like give some time to actually a build the training center and b expand the the TB2. And so it just yeah, I think the last one came out in what was Chris, it was Christmas. Yeah, it was Christmas of of last year.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Oh wow, that's a while. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, and it was so there was like a seven month hiatus that we had to take, and I mean, really that was that was it. Like it was all coming together. We had kind of acquired the new space, and we were like, okay, this is a I think this is a good one to just go ahead and like take a break because we've got to do a lot of stuff. And I mean, there's a there's huge gaps between these anyway, right? We had I think we only do I think five is the most we've ever done in a year. I and I would say we've we're most comfortable with four of them a year. So we only do one per quarter. Um so they usually have a good gap between them anyway, but we we were just like, this is it, it's just time to do it. We need we've got all these projects we need to do, and it's gonna take everyone involved, um, us included, to to help with those. And so yeah, we just we figured it was time, but but yeah, I mean that that's people were like begging. I mean, they were just in the comments constantly, and I was just like, dude, we are trying, like, don't think we're not doing it on purpose, we're not not giving it to you because you want it. Like, we just like we had to build an entire training center, and and it was uh really it was our people doing it too. Like EP sent over um uh Nico, a guy, he's great, he like helped build it, but be beyond that for the EP walls that we have on the comp bays and whatnot, and the spray wall, it was our people. It was mainly Will, Ruth, Gabe, and Derek just in there constantly building this new place. So it just took a while. It took a minute.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah, and there was there was sort of a a time period where we didn't even have a TB2 up, like at the old place or in the new space yet, because we were like in the in the midst of demoing the old training center and building out the new training center. And so I kind of remember talking to Michael uh and we were trying to figure out okay, what are we doing with the Ward Lords? Like we we want to coordinate a new uh episode, and we just had this big gap where we weren't gonna be able to. And Michael was like, we should just like frame it as season two, like it is truly a revamp of of of the series, and so we use this break to kind of uh uh update and upgrade uh a lot of the stuff surrounding Board Lords, uh, you know, like even in terms of production and some of our uh the editing stuff. Um, and then obviously like the new board, the 12 by 16, was a big upgrade. So we wanted it to feel like uh it was truly just a huge upgrade on all ends, and we we weren't just taking this this break for no reason, like it was to to revamp and upgrade.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

We wanted to use the new episode to kind of launch the TTC and the new expansion, and so we just we were like I mean it because it just is above and beyond like our most popular thing, and it just has the most eyes on it, and we were gonna have to kind of run many campaigns for both of those things anyway. And so we were like, why don't we just kind of do that with the thing that's gonna have the most eyes on it?

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah, just combine it all. Yeah, it worked like a charm. I mean, it was uh noticeably absent for a long time, and then we were all very happy to see it come back. And yeah, Quinn, something that I noticed is just the production. I mean, I'd say overall the production was just felt higher quality, but then something that I also noticed was you know, there was these segments that I felt like got expanded. There was uh more athlete interviews, there was a little more focus on that boulder breakdown and bringing in past board lords, not just to set, but to like talk about the set and and in like a more structured way. And I was just curious about when you thought about kicking it up a notch, were these like ideas you already had, like, oh, I know that this segment could be expanded, or you know, just how did you settle on that new kind of framework?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yeah. Um well, as far as the like we we added the new interview segment and really sort of uh built that out in a way that we hadn't with the past episodes. And that was due to sort of Michael and I chatting about the athlete intro introductions, which are typically done by, you know, Michael standing in front of the camera, listening off some of their accolades, some of their accomplishments. And uh we just felt that it would feel uh better if it was if it was from the athletes themselves. And so yeah, we we scheduled some interviews like the day before we filmed the actual episode and sat them down and just asked them questions about their climbing, about their specifically outdoor climbing, their accomplishments there, and then also their experience with board climbing. Uh and I just felt like that was that was the right move. And that was really a fun thing to do on my end as well. Like I really enjoyed it. It was I had this moment when we were interviewing. Daniel, and like I was kind of caught up in the work side of it where I was like, we got to get the shot, we got to get like the right thing. And then I was sitting there and I was like, this dude is so legendary. Like he has accomplished so much in the climbing world and has like contributed so many of the hardest FAs. Like Michael and Rachel were kind of giving me a hard time because they were like, Quinn's fanboying over Daniel. But in a way, I kind of was. I was like we all were. Yeah. We all were.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah. Yeah. But I I just, it was 18-year-old Quinn seeing this dude that like I had looked up to for a very long time and like sort of like remembering that in the moment while we were interviewing. So that was really fun for us to be a part of, and definitely something that I'm looking forward to doing in the in the future with all of the episodes.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Just to add to that, like we kind of sat back and we were like, and this is I'll be honest, like this is partly Will and Derek. And for those of you guys who don't know, Derek, Derek's been in some of our stuff, but he's basically our G GM and he has a million great ideas. And we always look at we I don't know if you watch Drive to Survive, the F1 thing on It's my favorite, my favorite show, man. I freaking love it. And I I don't really, it's funny because I I got more into F1 via that thing. And I actually don't I don't really watch the races. I I mainly just wait till the season's over and wait for that series because I just I love the drama. I just love the but it's really so we we talk about that all the time. Like if that's if that's sort of like the ultimate goal, like to kind of emulate that whole deal. Uh what we found is that we were lacking some some real character development with this series. Like it was usually me standing in front of the for the intro, just kind of like glazing over all of these, you know, accolades and and you know, ascents and all of this stuff. And we just thought like, yeah, maybe we should just let them say it, like let it come from their own mouths, and and uh let's use that to kind of build up to the actual climbing. Um and it it just yeah, it really did. It allowed us to kind of fanboy over all these guys and like all the things that they've done. And it it also gave us the ability to kind of, I don't know if you notice, like we we use those intros or those uh commentary pieces to sort of create uh hype leading up to the actual drop. So usually it was like we would announce it and then we drop into the next day, and and instead we were like, let's let's kind of trickle it out a little bit and kind of maybe build some hype a little bit more. And yeah, so those parts were that was kind of the biggest addition to the new episode. And I think it really I think that alone felt like it elevated it. Um, and and I I just was thinking, like, you know, I know young the younger generation knows Daniel Woods, but like, do they really know what Daniel has done? Do they realize how many crazy FAs that he's put up? Like, so many around the world. I mean, we didn't even talk about even half of she would even mention like retreat like Sleepwalker, none of that.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah, there's so much.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

He just had so many. But and and and the other part that that that was really cool about was like Matt and David sitting there and being like, yeah, Daniel's he's like our hero too. Like we it's and so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

I just we were all we were all fanboying over it, like even Matt and David. Like David was like, I bought my first pair of shoes because of because of Daniel, and then you know, Matt decided to be a professional rock climber because of Daniel. Like the dude was influential, it's pre-seg.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Well, I got handed to you guys the segment that you did with Daniel. I actually felt like it showcased Daniel in maybe the best light I've seen him. Uh, you know, he just was articulate, professional. I just it was I think it was the best I've ever seen of Daniel on camera, the way you guys framed him and that respect you had for him is and his accomplishments, and it came out great, but then also having those segments and getting that character development when I saw them on the wall, there's a congruency there. You know, like David Fitzgerald, who people do know. I mean, I've had him on the podcast a few times, and he's one of my favorite climbers in the world and editors, by the way. World class at everything, uh, including being just a good guy. You know, he's a little bit more soft-spoken, and it's interesting, like watching his climbing style. He's got this kind of like floaty, soft climbing style. And Daniel has this, you know, burly, like kind of like very firm in your face, uh, you know, burl. And it's just interesting, like seeing their who they were in front of the camera, who they were in climbing, who they were interacting with each other. And so I think it, I think it really that one extra layer of depth you guys added was uh exponential because it's you know, it wasn't just like a tiny little bit, really lent a lot to everything that came in the actual climbing.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Well, that's the new template going forward. I mean, I think we're gonna carry that over to Wall Stars as well going forward. I just I I think it because really and truly, like the like Board Lords it is really about the platform that it offers the athlete. Like, yeah, it's board climbing, yeah, it's cool, but it it's really not it's I I would say the TB2 and it all of that, like that's all like secondary to like the athletes, and we kind of recognize that they we're really more than anything, this is a is a platform for them. And I think one of the things that I I feel like we just a humble brag that I feel like we we do really well is is we pull authenticity from people, and and I feel like we I don't know, we've known all these guys or most of these guys for a long time. And so it, you know, I think they're comfortable with us and it it just kind of flows more easily. And I I felt the same way. And when we watched the Daniel interview back, like right after we did it, I was like, man, I don't think I've ever seen him speak like this. Uh so either, you know, both on the comfort side and just like kind of go into detail about you know the mark he's left on bouldering. So it was just really special. Like, I was telling them, I was like, I beyond the episode, like even if it this was just all we had to just have, you know, this was special to to us to have. So um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

We also, I mean, we were a bit nervous that it might turn some people away or we might get some pushback because it sort of it takes a little longer to get to the climbing session. And we get a lot of comments where people are like, get to the climbing already, get to the climbing. But I just yeah, we do. We don't get that many. We just we just it's not that many. But but a handful of folks will comment and be like, you know, enough with the introductions, like let's just see some hard guys climb. And like, I don't know. I I think that we were nervous that this might have uh polarizing effect, but it just it gives so much more to the episode, in my opinion. And like I think that these could stand as like really cool content pieces in the future that people can refer back to, and like having a quick word from the athlete goes a really long way. And we also like we did cut them down quite a bit. Like, I think that each person's interview in Board Lords 10 was around a minute and a half, potentially, but like you know, Daniel's was 15 minutes long, probably, and we put the uncut on Patreon. And so if people want more of it, they can they can go there and and watch those. Uh because like we said, there's so much more. Uh, and it's it's hard to include all of that right before the Warlords episode, but there is much more if you if you want to go watch, it's on

Tailoring The Climbs To The Climbers

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Patreon.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Michael, uh, tell me more about how these particular athletes or guests came to be.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Well, uh let me first say that we were this is gonna be a big oh what? Like so we were first talking to Jimmy, Matt, and Daniel. Um, but Jimmy had some conflicts, it didn't allow him to do it, but but it was cool because out of that, like we were you know talking and he suggested David, and I was like, actually that's perfect because David and Jimmy have a very similar style of climbing. Um, they're both like super fluid and just you know, like it was it was it was the perfect person to slide in if Jimmy couldn't do it. And I was like, hell yeah. And because we I think we had spoken to David in the past about trying to get him on the episode, but obviously, like we don't just throw people together, like we we put the right people together so that the outcome is gonna be the best it can be. So that's that's kind of how it came together. Jimmy was like, I think, I think Fitz is is psyched to do it. And I'm like, man, that would be really cool if he if he did. So that's kind of how it came together. And uh I will tell you that going into this one, I we did not I always say data points, I always talk about like because we hyperanalyze every person that's on board lords, we we just like hyperanalyze everything they've been doing around the time that we're going to film. Because it doesn't help to know what somebody did five years ago. It doesn't help to know like we we have to know their fitness level like right up to the episode. And so we, you know, a lot of times with these people, they'll have board accounts which give us a lot of data to understand like what they do, what they can't do, what what they have trouble with, you know, et cetera. These guys don't have uh they they were not posting a lot at all. Uh David, David doesn't post a lot uh about anything. Uh he's he's kind of reclusive in that way. And uh Daniel had been posting a lot uh on the board, but he had mainly been climbing outside. And so like leading up to it, I was like, I really don't know if he's in board shape. I know he's good. He's like, you know, because those are two different things. Being good outside, it all it all affects one another. So it's you're not always not always great at both at the same time. Uh and then Matt, I yeah, again, like I hadn't seen a lot of board climbing for Matt in the So I was just like, this is gonna be a this is this is gonna be a tough one because normally we really do. We're like custom making the climbs for these guys and their their uh ability in at that moment, which I think is why we ended up getting all of the guys from Board Lord 7 to to chief set, because a Quinn and I were kind of out because Quinn was getting better, his his thumb was healing and I was taking a break. So we were just not in shape to like hit the mark or feel like we could hit the mark, and so so yeah, we pulled in uh we pulled in those other guys and it and it worked really well.

SPEAKER_01 32:43

I got a question from of the patrons about the different morphology and styles of these guys, because I feel like Daniel and David are relatively similar size, although my hunch is that Daniel has a bigger ape index. Um, and then Matt, although we Matt can be joked at as a bigger climber, he's not that big, like he's not outrageously bigger than these guys, but all their styles were kind of different. One of my friends thought that the style did not suit Matt as well. But I I just kind of wanted to hear how you guys thought about the different matchups, like assuming that they're all in shape, but then there's all these different sizes and then styles. And if it was just two people, maybe you know, you have two boulders, you can kind of say, hey, this one we think might lead towards one person or the other, but then with three, it really adds a complexity that maybe yeah. How do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Uh well, that is always part of the like the size difference. You know, we we said in the past, like we typically try to keep who we invite on, or we we try to keep the same height uh or a similar height. Like the one the Board Lord 7 was kind of a crazy one where we had Sean who is shorter, and then you know, Noah and Hamish are tall and lanky. And so that was one of the bigger, you know, uh that that was the biggest gap we had had. But that's also part of I think why we brought them in, because I like I was like, this is gonna be a similar deal where you know Matt is a similar spec to Quinn. I think Quinn's maybe slightly taller than Matt, but their arm span's about the same. And you know, then Daniel on the shorter side is exactly my spec. So that kind of helped. Like we are exactly the same spec. Yeah, I I I think having the the guys from Board Lord 7 uh kind of chief set and having their sizes kind of built into the process that they were, you know, they had for building the boulders helped out in that way because it, you know, they were building them together mostly. I mean, Sean and uh Noah built the the spray, and then Hamish kind of chief set the core of the mirror. And uh yeah, so having them and having that spread of sizes kind of I think helped in that way. And this was just a gamble. This one was the biggest gamble. Um, but it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

We also did take into consideration the difference in their sizes. Like we added a foothold onto the mirror layout uh boulder that would sort of help with the cross move to the pinch, and that extra foot was for Matt. And the funny thing is he didn't use it, he like ended up just hand foot matching, but Daniel did, didn't he?

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Yeah, and so so it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Like, we we took those things into consideration when we were tweaking the boulders. Uh, you know, we had like Noah was in there, we had Adam and Austin uh who were in town, they were climbing on them, and a big part of the conversation was was size and style. Um, so yeah, I think that Matt, though being a big climber, he's actually quite good at climbing small. Like that dude has sent some really hard, crimpy boulders uh that are small box, and like you would imagine somebody that's David's size would would be the one to do that. But Matt is also very capable. So we just trusted that he would be uh ready for it and like did everything we could on our end to sort of facilitate that.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I will also add that if it would have been another bigger person, like if it let's say it would have been Jimmy, I think Daniel would have had a harder time. Like we try we tend to weight it towards the average, right? And I think like, but if if we had you know two guys close to six foot, we probably would have weighted or or tried to get the setting weighted towards them um a little bit more. Not to say it would have been totally bricked, kind of like it was for Sean and Bordlord 7, but that's that's definitely part of consideration as we try to like kind of take the average and and build it for that.

Support From Patreon

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Quick break while I tell you about today's sponsor. Thank you to all the patrons who helped make this show possible. Join them so you can get episodes early before anyone else, and those episodes are ad-free. As a patron, you also get to submit questions for upcoming guests. The answers to those questions are only available to patrons. Follow the link in the show notes to join now. You also get access to a private Discord where you'll find me and other people who want to go from good to great. Okay, back to the pod. Quinn, you were mentioning how you were fanboying over Daniel Woods, which um I totally understand. By the way, whenever I do a podcast with someone, like I remember doing a podcast with Chris Sharma, who for me yeah, legend legend for for everyone, but I think maybe from my generation, really someone special. And I was really focused on like the work mode and getting it done, doing it right, and I was like, wait, just enjoy this. Like, this is awesome, like this is fun. Um, so I like that you like snapped over there. Um total tangent. Um watching how Daniel climbed on those, like the style that he exhibited, and then seeing how David climbed on those exact same climbs, and then seeing how Matt climbed those exact same climbs. What did you think about their styles? Like, what jumped out at you is like, wow, like that's really interesting how Daniel did that move versus Matt or David.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

The first thing that comes to my mind was uh there's actually a part in the episode where me, Noah, and Ben were kind of chatting to the side. And uh Michael kind of runs up, he's like, What are you guys talking about? And we, it was right after Daniel had just flashed the second boulder. And the funny thing was, we were kind of anticipating that Daniel would struggle with the second one more, and like Matt would be more well suited for it. So, like big, burly, jumpy stuff, but we had forgotten that Daniel is literally the best in the world at that specific grip type. Like that pinch that you jump off of is just perfectly his thing. Um, and me and Michael watching through the many versions that we had finalized before that we posted it. We were just like in awe. Every time he would grab that pinch, Michael would be like, look at how he's doing that. And like he just takes his time getting it so well. Like he is squeezing the juice out of it. It is, it is wild. But yeah, it's it's funny, like uh Daniel and David are both finger strength-oriented climbers. Both of them have like really, really strong hands, but uh climbed quite differently. Like their movement is very different. Daniel is very rigid, like he's like robotic in a way. And uh David is less like that. He like you said earlier, Josh, he floats. Like he just looks like he's not even trying. And Daniel looks like he's trying V15 hard, whether it's V7 or if it's V15. Like, you know what I mean? Like he's just so flexed. And uh yeah, it was like interesting to see these two guys that sort of their the fing their finger strength is their strong suit, but they move quite differently.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Yeah, David, I was like really looking forward to see that because back when we first got the old beast set, uh, I would say it was probably in 2019 when this happened, but um Daniel, Jimmy, and David stopped by and just had a session together on the beast, and I was I was I remember that session quite well because I was like watching Jimmy and Daniel, and I was like, you know, I was like, they're they're great. But then I David stole my attention because he was making them, I wouldn't say look bad, but he looked way more effortless than they did uh when they were there, and I was like, Jesus, like this guy is crazy. And then, you know, as I as years have gone by and I've talked to other pro climbers and all that who know David and all that, so like and that's what I I kind of mentioned it in the background of the interview portion, but like David, David is like your pro climber's favorite pro climber. Uh and and every time you mention someone who's really good at board climbing, his name always comes up, but you just don't see it all the time. He's just kind of you know, he's just secretive about it, he doesn't really post anything. But um, so I was really anticipating him on the wall and just like anticipating that same style and all of that. And he he I we mentioned this, but he had only climbed on the board once prior to the episode. Um, so if you go back and watch it, like keep that, if you miss that part, kind of keep that in mind. Like he did not know the holds like the other two did, similar to Sung Tzu when he came on. But um, but yeah, like David's goes, like po he didn't have near as many tries per Boulder, uh, other than on the second one, but like every single one, he just got so close to doing it, and it really just was like some tactical errors and the fact that you know I noticed he was getting so pumped, uh, I think just with the elevation and just like I don't know, he was just gripping the piss out of everything, but like he couldn't recover. I think he was just having a hard time recovering. But if if he had had a little bit more time in the elevation and was maybe a little more acclimated, I think he probably probably would have been a different ball game.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Yeah, Will made some comment, or maybe it was Carlos. I can't remember. This is probably not on air for good temps, but I think it was Will made a comment that he felt like Daniel came to win and Fitz and Foltz came to session. And you know, that just kind of occurred to me when you're talking about how you know it sounded like Fitz was climbing, you know, having fun, but yeah, that kind of like extra little bit to complete that problem. Uh I'm also glad that you guys saw the same thing as me in the the Fitz versus Daniel kind of comparison where they're both so in their hands. Like though, I mean, I'm sure they can do a million one-arm pull-ups. I want to say that they're weak other than their hands, but when I think of them as climbers, I would say their hand strength and finger strength are some of the best and or or the best in the world. But then how they look on the wall was so completely different, and I love that. Like I love that about climbing, that just there's a there was a floatiness in Fitz and uh I don't want to say overpowering because I feel like whenever I use that word, I'm somehow implying that Daniel's climbing incorrectly, where clearly that is ridiculous to say because the way he climbs is uh but just watching that, and it's always a cool reminder to see you know how you climb and how you get through things is your own. And there's not it wasn't right how Daniel or David was doing it, and wrong how the other guy was doing it. Um, and I I also wanted to shout out that I reached out to Fitz, asked him about his finger, um, because he there was a little part where he had hurt his finger. It sounds like it was actually somewhat serious, um, but that it's on the men quickly. And he I know he's been through some finger injuries before. So yeah, just bump for him, but it happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yeah, if you notice, if you we were cracking. This well, it wasn't funny, but like when we want when you watch the episode, right when he like comes off the wall and shakes his hand, I'm in the background and you can watch my eyes and my facial expression, like I knew. I was like, fuck, there it is. Like, my best guess is that he he he popped his pinky pulley, um, which I mean, he had a good attitude about it. He was like, you know, it's all good. This is part of it, and all this stuff. He's like, it's the summer, I'm fine, like I can drink three finger drag, it's gonna be fine, and all this stuff. But yeah, we did have a lot of people asking, and like, we're not gonna sit there and be like, oh yeah, this is what's going on. Like, I mean, that's but that's that's my best guess of what happened, and I'm sure he'll he'll get better. It happens all of us at one point or another.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

But I also reached out to him and he was like, he thinks he's 95% back, which was like shocking to me. I was like, wow, okay. And he he sent he sent a video of him doing this really hard, crimpy boulder that Zach Gala set on the board called Headache. And I was like, dude, what? Like weren't you just injured? And he's already like sending so hard, but uh, I think he's just yeah, yeah, I know. I was really, I was really glad to hear that he was like already back on the board and feeling feeling good.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

I should mention that, Michael, I've talked to you before about athletes that were coming on, and sometimes there's injuries beforehand or people are recovering from injuries, and you've been adamant about doing your best to make sure that you don't put someone in a situation where they might go 110% get injured. And so I know that it, you know, there's still a I mean, every time we climb there, there's a risk. Uh, but you know, I I know that was awful for you guys to yeah, I know you're bummed. I'm I'm sure you guys are bummed.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

It's it's crazy to me that it took 10 episodes for something like that to happen. I mean, we're not talking about climbing outside, we're not talking about comp boulders where you know a lot of it is like lower body coordination and shit like that. Like it is literally the most strenuous environment and sort of the most dangerous environment in climbing. Like I it just there is, like it's board climbing, everybody knows it. Like it's just it's tough. Like it, it's very you can you can get injured really quickly. So it's it's crazy to me that it it it took 10 episodes. But even this this one, I I mean, Quinn remembers we were sitting there and I was like, look, I'm gonna say it now, and I said it to every one of them. I was like, don't get injured. I want you to come here, get here hydrated, take your time. Like, I do nobody wants to see that. And uh, you know, obviously you can't control it when it happens, but um, but we do really stress it uh as best we can, and we try not to pull anybody on that's recovering or you know, just getting off of an injury. It just yeah, we're we're just we're not trying to see that, but you know, and and it was unfortunate, but that is kind of the risk of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

At least it didn't happen while they were skiing or something dumb like that.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

I know I was gonna say skiing's I would say skiing's more dangerous than board climbing.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah. Okay. Um well

TensionBoardClub Vol. 1 Vol. 1

SPEAKER_01 46:48

I love Board Lords number 10, and I also loved that in Japan they must be watching it and doing a knockoff. I should no, not knockoff. What do I say? Like, what's a positive way to put it? Yeah, their own version. Yeah. Uh so I want to hear more about it, but I'll tell you why I brought it up as that segue. Is you know what blew me away about the kind of Japanese boardlords that just came out is the volume that they do, you guys. It was four freaking V12 and up climbs. And you know, you guys, those climbs were burly that were on boardlords number 10, but they're probably in the same ballpark, and it was two of them. And in Japan, when they do boardlords, they said, Oh, two boulders? You guys are just a bunch of weak Americans. We'll do four boulders. Uh so for those who haven't seen it, there was what was it called? There is uh on is it Toshi's Tension Board Club? Excalibur. Yeah. It's it the the YouTube, we'll link in the show notes, but it's Excalibur is the YouTube channel. They did Tension Board Club volume number one. Uh, and it kind of seemed like a Japanese boardlord's knockoff in the best possible way. Knockoff makes it sound negative. It was awesome. Uh yeah, Michael, is this sanctioned? Uh did they did they talk to you first or are were they just making fun of you? How'd that come to be?

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Uh well, I mean, no, yeah, Toshi reached out and he was just super kind about it. And he, you know, he I think this was kind of to pay homage to the boardlords thing. And he he even said that in his message. And uh he was like, you know, he was super respectful. He was like, If you know you want me to change anything or edit anything, like I'll do it. I don't care. Like, just let me know. And and I was like, nah, dude, this is awesome. Like, I don't do anything to this. And uh, so no, it it he had definitely reached out, and um, I'm just psyched because Toshi is just a super fan of the board. And I mean, so Excalibur is I'm pretty sure his gym chain.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

I I don't know if he Xcaliber is, I think, the is that the YouTube channel and the gym chain?

SPEAKER_02 48:51

I think so. I mean, because they all had Excalibur shirts. I mean, I guess they could make you know shirts for the YouTube channel. But X calibali, I think that Xcaliber is the Gem Chain, and then point being is like he loves it. I hope this happens, Chris fingers crossed. But he's he's talking to Caleb about getting two 1612s. We'll see if that happens. I don't want to put that, I won't hold you to that, Toshi, but I'd be sick if he did it. Uh um, but anyway, they have been just really, really psyched on the board, and uh yeah, he he reached out and told us he was gonna do it. And I I was really psyched about this because I think that Japan has been kind of slow to adopt the tension board, not not just any well, not just the tension board. I think that the board culture in Japan is just a little different. I don't I don't think they got on the bandwagon like a lot of other countries did. Uh, you know, they they're mostly competition style and all that stuff, so but they have just slowly been popping up and like seeing these guys on the board was really good. And we talk about data points, like this offered so many data points for us because yeah, like a number of those guys have been on our list to at some point get over here. But obviously, coming from Japan, logistics are a little more complicated. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Who did you recognize on that list? Because I knew you know, Toshi, Raiuchi, uh, I want to say it was like it wasn't Ben, it was like B something. I shall look this up. Uh, I recognize that name, but did you recognize all these names? Uh, have you had your eye on them?

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Yeah, so Makado and Ritsu, they were at uh Burden. We met them at Burden of Dreams. Um, is that correct? Oh yeah. Like yeah, like we they were they when we scrolled up. Well, were you with us yet?

SPEAKER_00 50:36

No, but you you were telling me this was the I was a day behind y'all, but y'all y'all ran into them while they were trying it. Because I think they were trying like the sim of uh Burden before they went.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Yeah, so I had met those guys uh at Burden in Finland. We showed up and they were like live streaming it and something. It was funny because somebody like reached down and were like, yo, I saw you on like Mikado's live stream. I was like, that's hilarious. But uh yeah, so we had we'd met and I was watching them on Burden and I was like, okay, like these guys are definitely on the list. Like I gotta but yeah, I I was familiar with at least half of them, and we we just knew at some point like we're gonna start recruiting some of these guys to come over here. So it was a it was just great to see them on those boulders. And the spread of boulders they did was just perfect to understand just the whole breadth of their skill set on on the board. I mean, Jesus, like these, especially the the last two, I mean, all of them were sick, but especially the last two to me, like they looked like something we would set, and it just had such variety and just like complexity. So uh yeah, it was it was really cool uh to see. And I hope they keep doing them. I don't know if their whole deal is to like bring new people every time or to just have the same guys and do new boulders. Um, but either way, I'm I'm psyched to see them do more of them.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Yeah, whatever they do is gonna be awesome. Like I if it's the same guys, if it's new people, uh I thought the setting was incredibly good. I really was impressed with it. I yeah, it blew me away just the volume, but then that moment on the first boulder where they do a move from a sloper out to uh kind of that slopey big crimp, and then when one of the guys sent it, like they ended up campusing it, one hand dropped off and then came back on. And it's just one of those moments, you know, when you like make up a problem, not sure how it goes, and then it goes like that, and you're like, oh my god, you guys, that's the beta that worked. That was just that was a moment for me where I was like, it was made for TV.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Yeah, that was Ritsu. Ritsu is a freak. Yes, Ritsu just shit on it. His control was wild, like just he just like locked up his back and it just I was like, what the fuck? Yeah, it was wild. I will say we did try those boulders. Uh, like not Michael, I don't think, was trying them this day, but it was like me, Noah, Ben, Colin, and Jacob Kelligan. Um, and for whatever reason we were trying them at 50 degrees instead of 45. I think I I don't know what why that was, but I will say Noah had the same one arm swing off of that crimp, like, but at 50. And it was like everybody who was there was like, what the fuck was that?

SPEAKER_02 53:22

Talk about him like that. I know he's standing right there. Do not look at him.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

I knew it. I knew it. I knew he was I gotta say it. I mean, no, I have to say it because it's like, you know, you were talking about like that was a that was made for TV, like that moment where it's Ritsu. That moment, luckily, it is it is it's gonna be in Wheel Rock.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

Like, there's gonna be that we'll see it. It was pretty insane. That's so cool. Yeah, but anyway, yeah, that just their style, I think, was just incredible. And it was exactly what you would anticipate, like super dynamic, super controlled. And you know, like there's a I feel like there's a level of control that you can get when you're dynamic, right? Like people can stick moves, sure, but like maybe not have a certain that much control. But these guys do just they could lock it up so well. Uh, and it was kind of exactly what you would expect. Like a lot of foot cutting, a lot of like controlled campusing, a lot of just like swinging with a locked-ass uh, you know, 90-degree arm, like it everything that I would expect. Just yeah, kind of nuts.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

What a cool example. The fact that Quinn, you and Noah and that whole crew went and climbed on those boulders is like the best example of why standardized boards are cool. It's like I just saw a crew in Japan set some banger boulders, make a cool video. So now we're gonna try it. Like oh, literally around the world.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

That's so cool, man. Dude, the funny thing was we like beat them to it with the the video, essentially. Like uh the video had not come out yet, but we noticed that they had set some boulders, and we were like, bro, they must have done everything on on the TB2, like they're starting to set, like the Japanese crew is starting to set because they've done everything. And so we were like, let's check them out. And so we tried, I think, maybe two or three of them. Um before we even knew that, they were making like this boardlords video and that it was gonna be released. And so, yeah, we got a session on it before the episode dropped, and I haven't really gotten back on them since the episode has dropped, but uh, the that's like top of my list to get back on those.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

Did you know what move really stuck out that I got asked about if you tried was it was it was the V13 at 55 called Incredible Force, and that underkling when they take the fat sloper and use it as an undercling and then go to the dam bar, like I just was like, dude, at 55, like amazing foot tension to like just I just thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

Oh it was so rugged. Yeah, it was fun to analyze that move a little bit. They all did it slightly differently. Some some of the guys were towing in on the wooden pinch like down low and kind of clamping their feet and then slamming into the compression, and then some of the other guys were stepping left foot through and sort of back stepping to to nail it. Um but yeah, that was a great boulder. We did not try that one, but even the last move of that boulder was also incredible. Like to the jug, uh I what was the guy's name? Haruto Tano was the guy who set that one, and he killed it. Like that that last that sequence is like something that Michael and I would have cooked up, and so it was fun to see him just like nail it.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Yeah, I I I was like, this looks like crying in the club mixed with nylon strong. I was like, that's that's exactly what this looks like to me. It's one of those things where you're like going straight up, and it's like got this singular hard move to a wooden crimp like crying in the club, and then it goes to the top and then busts right, and it had like similar holds and all that stuff, had the ball on it. Um, yeah, yeah, man. I it one of my one of the funniest moments in the in the video was after they did that third one, they hand back to Toshi, and Toshi was like, This is uh honestly insane. Like his face was like, Ah, what the fuck? And I was like, Yeah, I I I get it, Toshi. I say that every time we do one of those those episodes.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Um, dude, when Toshi did that, you know that one that I blanket, was it the last one? There's like the it's kind of going left, and then he got like that really tweaked under cling, and it was like a big move, like super steep, and he just locked it off. He just got his feet over on that pinch. It was like, remember, it was like the gas stone to the kind of like lippy crimp. You went under to like a pinch, got your feet over, and he just sucked that into his like chest or hip and just static over. And I was like, that was like a Daniel move. Yeah, that was just like uh old manpower right there.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Yeah, yeah. That last one was wild, like that campus through. It just, oh my god, it they they just kept getting better and better. And I was like, I was like, man, they are they're gonna be tough to set for. I mean, not not tough to set for, but it was like they were they were setting foreshadowing. Is that what you oh yeah, we're getting those. I mean, this is what do you think? We're not gonna try to get them over here. Like, what do you like?

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Come on, yeah. That that match on the last boulder from Ritsu was also one of my favorite favorite moments. Just like the composure and the strength to have done all of that hard climbing and then like campus over to it and then pinch the dam bar at 50 degrees. And that extra moment.

SPEAKER_01 58:31

He even he like he owned it too. He was not like, look, I did it. It was like, I'm still here. Yeah, I'm still dude. I hate that dude. Actually, I love that hold, but you know, like fragmentation has that finish on on it. Uh, and like for whatever reason, dude, I just struggle on that hold. And same thing with what was like masterpiece, masterpiece you have to match it, dude. And there's a video of me doing masterpiece, and when I I match it and I do like the head kickback, you know, where like your your head goes back just like fully maxing on that thing, and he's just campusing on 50 after doing like v13. Beast.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

Yeah, yeah, beast. I'll tell you one damn thing. If we can get these guys on an episode, they're gonna be a lot harder than those boulders. Um, I I just I'm I I'm not getting no way am I giving them like we're not giving them 12s and 13s.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Like did those seem appropriately graded, Quinn, when you tried them, or even Michael when you eyeballed them? Like they looked like V12, V13 TB2s. Like, I'm not I'm not saying I'm not trying to call them out. I'm just like wondering, would that seem appropriate?

SPEAKER_00 59:34

It seems appropriate. Yeah, I mean, trying again, we tried two of them at the wrong angle essentially, or no, just one of them. The Dara Popeye one we tried at 50, and then the uh last boulder always coming back, which we also tried that at 50, but I thought that the grades seemed accurate. I feel like they probably have a good sense for like how the grading system works on the TB2 because they've done everything on the TB2. Like uh it's insane, but yeah, they they they definitely seem like they nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Uh you guys, you have to do a board lords with them, or you have to fly to Japan, or you have like this ha and also can we just like kind of put this out into the ether that maybe like Korea could like now do their version because I don't know if you guys saw was it uh Lee Min Young? Is that was that his name? Um yeah, Lee Min Young just doing how soon is now V15, and there's Sung Tzu. Like, yeah, I don't know. Like I could see, like I would just love it if each area in the world is like, hey, here's our board lord's knockoff, homage, whatever. Uh, and you know, kind of like it's almost like uh what is it? It's like an audition tape. Yeah, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

I mean, it's great, it's a great one. Yeah, it would be sweet.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

Yeah, I was just gonna mention that guy, Lee Mung Min Young. He like he's been crushing on the TB2, and uh he had posted something the day or like two days before he posted his send uh footy of him doing how soon is now, and like on his first session, he fell on the move to the finish hold, um, which is insane. Like that guy, and he just looked so locked in, like so calm the whole time. Uh yeah, that was pretty sick. That was a good moment. And he was just so hyped on the tension board. It was a wholesome moment. He was like, tension board's the best board, made me smile.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Yeah, I mean, I I'm trying to like think of I mean, we the logistics for the Japanese thing is tough because like they're not just gonna come over here, do an episode and go back. Like, that's a long ass trip to just do that, and so you kind of were, you know, they're gonna have to make a bit of a trip out of it, and we got to convince them to kind of do that. But and I I'll be honest with you though, if Toshi gets two boards, I don't know, it might make moral sense for me and Quinn to just go over there or just bring the team over there to do them, but I don't know. Uh I'm certainly open to it, but yeah, very, very cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

Just so everyone knows out there in the world, you know, Megatron, not too far from you guys, hypnotized minds, you know, uh, there can be other reasons to come out. Now, I would argue that even if they did Megatron, it would get less views on YouTube than them being on Boardlords. So, you know, if they're trying to sell it to their sponsors, just a reminder, Boardlords gets those gets those eyeballs. So yeah. Uh also, could someone when they come over from Japan bring some of that like Tokyo powder? Uh I like I've never tried this, but I heard them talking about I can't remember what it was funny because it was like translated like strangely, but I was like, oh, they're talking about that like you know, like the chalk that's over there that I feel like I hear about it, I see the boost packages. Like, do you guys know where I get? Like, I I want I want some Tokyo boost, man. They had some in Squamish.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Yeah, I think Squamish had some, but I thought So Will distributed it for a while, but I don't know if they do anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

But like, why isn't it REI?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

Like, I just want to go REI or whatever. Like, just I want to try it. I don't know. I worry that something in it, like the ingredients are kind of not something that I don't know. But that'd be my guess. Like maybe it's just made us something that isn't a good thing. Carcinogens or something. I'll still do it, dude. I'm yeah, yeah, I don't care. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

We're putting antihydral on our fingers. I think that a little boost isn't gonna, you know. Dude, do you guys ever put antihydral on your fingers?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

And then, you know, you go to sleep and you wake up and you know, you want to like really wash your hands well before you maybe make breakfast or like put in your contacts or something. But then sometimes I forget and I'm just like, oh, I pro oh, that's not good.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:35

I probably just ate like antihydral. That that could be enough. I'm pretty sure one of the ingredients in it is literally formaldehyde. It is. I think that's the act, I think that's the key ingredient. That's the that's the important ingredient. But dude, I'll fall asleep with that stuff. I'll wake up and I'm like covered in it. I don't know why. I don't know what I'm doing in uh in the night, but I'm like, it's on my shirt, it's like on my face. I'm like, I'm gonna have a really dry patch right by my eye.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Oh man. One time I was in Squamish and which is where I discovered the magic of antihydral. Uh, but then actually, this was later I was using like the spray uh kind that is maybe a little less intense. I put it on every day because I was like, if some antihydrole is good, more antihydral is better, and it worked, but then I got some kind of like crazy, like scaly stuff in between my fingers that lasted for a couple of months. So yeah, just uh a warning out there like, yeah, if some is good, more is not always better. Just a reminder, just you know, took me took me a couple of years to figure that out.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

I have never used it. I've never used it. I I I mean, I I luckily I think have pretty pretty good skin, like kind of in the middle skin. But like I I had I had a buddy using it a long time ago, and just like the effects of once you come off of it, like it's just I think it can be like really gnarly. So I'm just like, I'm like, I don't need any of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:56

Dude, it's not heroin. It's you're not come off of antihydral.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:00

You just crazy dude. The come down off of antihydral is wild. I got the shakes. I'm like over here, like, oh dear lord. Couldn't even pick up my spoon because it was my hands are just so sweaty. I just I've definitely overdone the antihydral one time in particular when I was in uh Switzerland and I came back and my skin like shattered. I don't even know how to describe it. Like it didn't split in like the normal way. It literally looked like shattered glass, and I had to I had to like take a week off climbing, sand my skin, moisturize it, and then it went right back on and it was just too good. You know, that sort of less yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

The lesson here is never come off. Okay, got it. Yeah. Don't go through it wrong. Uh all right, you guys. Um

3 Months On The 16x12 TB2

SPEAKER_01 1:05:48

actually, before we move on to bonus questions, I wanted to ask a little bit about the 12 by 16. Do you actually do you call it 16 by 12 or 12 by 16? Um, dude, we Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

So we did It's all over the place. It's all over the place. We doesn't really matter to you guys. It doesn't really matter. We just did something early on and we just stuck with it where we did the width first. Uh so whatever. It's 16 wide. I just call it the 16 wide board, but 12 feet high.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

Wait, is it this marketing material did not make it to quid? Yeah. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure. Do we call it 16 by 12 or do we call it 12 by 16?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:26

No, we tell it the 1612. Um, because that's how we stuck with width first.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:31

Um, I'm maybe I've been saying it wrong. All right, this doesn't matter. We've really wrong, it really doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Yeah, it really last time we talked and Michael, we kind of like did a pretty cool breakdown of all the new holds and everything. But now you guys have been climbing on it for months, and just how's it feel? Like, can you even imagine going back down to like the smaller one? Or now that you've tasted the sweet, sweet 16-foot wide, you you're like, oh, I can't be down there slumming it with those 12-footers.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Dude, I have certainly looked at the 12-foot wide board and been like, this feels so small after having picked up the 16-foot wide. Yeah, you can't go back.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:17

I mean, I look, it is true that like you, after being on it, you go in a and see a 12-12 and you're like, geez, it is so much smaller. But, you know, I I would I still think that the 1212 is kind of like the flagship. We understand that not everybody has space for a 16 wide board. It just was sort of a thing that we were like, you know, people are into it. Let's let's expand it and have the option. I think the staple size is the 1212. That being said, though, I think if you do have the room, like you're certainly not going to be disappointed with the six, like, it is the final form. I've said it before, like, it is the final form of the board. You're going to be able to get the complete experience that we're going to build into this thing. It's not going to get any bigger.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

That was my next question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

I I know you've you've talked about it, Josh, but you're like, oh, well, you know, like two people can't really climb on it and all that stuff. And I just don't think that I've thought about this up and down, and I just don't think that matters. It's a 16-foot-wide wall, and I get that like a lot of people at the gym might be sitting around it, and it would be nice if two people could climb on it. But at the same time, like you think about the average amount of time someone is on the wall, you're talking about 15 to 30 seconds on average. And for something like 16 foot wide, like sometimes they're, you know, it could be closer to a minute that they're on the wall, but like it's just not that much time to deal with, and you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

But let me say what I because yeah, I've said that like, oh, two people can't climb on a 16-foot wide board. And what I actually mean by that is that I would kind of argue that boards shouldn't get any bigger because I think 16-foot wide is fine for one person to climb on. I don't know if like 20-foot wide or 24-foot wide, like I still don't think two people can climb on in a way. So I feel like if you're gonna go big, it has to be like way bigger because otherwise, like, yeah, if it's like 18 feet, I don't know, there it would still be weird. And so I did see some of those uh those boards over at Nova Boulders that are I think they're 32 feet wide. And I was like, yeah, two people could climb on this. Um it's 32 feet wide. Like uh so just yeah, my yeah, so I totally actually yeah, I agree with you, Michael. Um, but I couldn't help but ask, it sounds like I've already asked before if it was gonna go bigger, and um sounds like it's not, and that's okay. The final form, the boss of the the board, and once you go 16, you can't go back into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

I mean, yeah, the the the new holds that were integrated in there like really did fill a gap that you know the the the the 12, you know, and I feel like like I've said like each crop kind of does add more and more to the experience. And so yeah, I mean the fit the 16 wide is the full experience. So if that's what you want, then we've got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:03

One of my favorite things with the 16-foot wide is not only the additional holds, but the way that you're able to interact with the 1212. With the 1212, uh obviously like the holds on the perimeter, you're not you're kind of limited on the way you can interact with those because there's no wall to your right or to your left, whether you're on the left or right side of the board. But now we've got this extra two feet that allows you to climb into the 1212 very differently. And so not only do we have like a really cool additional uh two feet on each side that you can climb, but also the way in which you climb in the 1212 is influenced by the 1612. And so that's been one of my favorite things is like all of these ideas that have kind of been floating around in my head with how you could climb on the 1212 are actually able to be done now. Like I was like, Oh, it'd be sick if you could like grab this with your left hand this way and then compress, but there's no holds there, and so now there's holes there and you can compress it and climb it very differently. It's like like Michael said, not everybody's gonna get it, but I I'm so glad we have it, and it has been a really fun and like the hold set is uh is incredible. Uh yeah, like the setting opportunities have just have have bumped up, and it also fosters a very different style uh of climbing than the 1212. And uh yeah, those those new holds have added a lot to the variety of movement that you can get out of the board.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

If you look at boardlord 10, I mean that was the prompt that we gave the setters. Like I really did let them kind of do what they wanted. I mean, we we I just kind of we stood in the background and kind of like helped them tweak some things just to make it a little more appealing and more complex, more boardlordy. Uh but if you but the the main prompt was like, look, use as many of these new grips as you can. And uh and they did. Like I it really that episode really highlights especially like the boomerang, the slot, the new slot hold, and like the the goddambar, the big ass like damn bar in the it ends. Like it really does highlight the new experiences that can be had with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

So what's your favorite new hold, Michael? And then and then Quinn?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:09

Uh I would I have to go with the boomerang. Uh that thing's just cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:13

It just can do so much. You can use it in so many ways. And that first boulder in Borderlow's 10 kind of gives you the full idea of what it can do. Um, so I would say the boomerang.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

Yeah, I think I might say my favorite and least favorite is the slot hold. It's it's like it adds a level of accuracy to the finish row that we didn't have. And I think we've probably said this before, but that hold was based off of a hold that was on the beast. Um, a slot hold uh called Bullseye. And I remember chatting with Will and was like, be sick if we had a slot because there's a lot of boulders on the beast that finish on the slot, and it it forces you to climb the beginning part of the boulder really well super efficiently, so that when you get to the top, like you have that margin to hit that thing well. And if you don't have that margin, you miss the slot. Like it gets tricky, but it's also infuriating. Michael said something on the beast like two years ago called Vantablack, and I think I fell on the last move probably 15 to 20 times because of the slot. Like I would just like fumble it. It was kind of a dicey last little move going off of a bad crimp. Um, and so yeah, that that would be my favorite and least favorite hold.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:23

I thought that perhaps some of the new holds that are being released for the 16x12 filled out some of the spots on the 12 by 12. Am I right on that? Um, and if so, when are those available now? And how's that gonna work out for people to, you know, if they have a 12 by 12 and are looking to fill out that any info on that that rollout, Michael?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Yeah, so they do. Um it when you get the 1612, a lot of the new holds go into the open uh spaces of the 1212. So like the what I call the secondary end row uh is is completely filled out now. Um and the way it works is uh you cannot buy them for the 1212. They only come with the 1612 expansion, and they only show up in the app under the 1612. So when you create a board in the app, those holes don't even show up on the 1212. They have to you have to create a board for a 1612.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

So you're gonna break some hearts there.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:23

Oh, yeah, I know. We've already broken some hearts and people are kind of are pissed about it. But I think that's also what's really cool and a little bit more appealing about the the expansion is it's not just on the wings of the thing, it's it's also filling in gaps that the 1212 had.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

Well, to support your guys' decision on that, I gotta tell you something that I I kind of like preserving the sanctity of like this is the 12 by 12 layout we all have been climbing on it for years and love it. And it's a little weird when you I'll call I'll call out Moonboard here, where it's like there's so many options. It's like, do you have the width holds? Do you have the screw-ons? Do you have like the red holds too? And you're just like, I got the 2019 set or whatever. Like, just keep it simple. Yeah, keep it simple. So um, and yeah, maybe you're just kind of nudging gyms to get uh 16 or yeah, 16 by 12? Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, uh, that was a very, very fun tension boardlords focused episode. Love having you guys. I told you at the top that these are my favorite episodes to record, and I meant it, and I think we proved it by having a blast of an episode. Um so let's close it out with some bonus questions, and this one is boardlords focused because I got some questions about people wanting to attend. If you want to hear that QA and other extra behind-the-scenes content from this episode and others, head over to patreon.com slash test piece to sign up now. Patrons also get their episodes early and ad-free. There's hours and hours of bonus content there to help you on your own path of going from good to great. Still not sure? There's a free seven day trial for you to check it out. And to help the show grow, please share this episode with someone who would love it. Okay, see you next week.