#200 Gio Placci — How To Never Stop Improving, The Problem With Onsights, and Training With The World’s Strongest Climbers

La Rage D’Adam 9b+/5.15c

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I prefer other things, but I like to watch and I respect people that use neighbors. And I use out. I put the fucking duct tape every day in my hand. So you shave your legs, is what you're saying. Do you have to shave your legs? Yeah, I can put down my trousers now, but uh yeah, I will be show you when it's finished.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

I'm so welcome to the Test Piece Podcast. This podcast is about all things high-level climbing. How to go from good to great. I'm your host, Joshua Horsley. I've been climbing for over 30 years. We recently updated our Patreon, and now you get exclusive content from the guests that you love. You get your episodes before everyone else, and they're ad-free. Try it out now at patreon.com slash test piece with a free seven-day trial. Okay, let's start the show. Giovanni Placci. Dude, so psyched to have you on today. How's it going, man? Everything is good. Yeah, I'm here in France. Just come back from the rock. Yeah, uh, can you just tell everyone what your day looked like today? Because from my perspective, it seems like you're just literally living the dream, dude.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Um, yeah, I mean, um, it depends so much if it's like rock season, comp season. Um, yeah. Uh now it's quite chill because uh uh I'm just going on rock. So I wake up in the morning and uh at breakfast we head to the uh cliff. Uh we do the annoying approach of uh Ramiro, and then yeah, do like three tries of the project, come back, eat together. Yeah, that's uh easy.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Alright, dude, I'm gonna make it sound way cooler than that. You are in France at the Verdun Gorge, you woke up with your buddies, you cruised to the Ramirol cave, tried one of the coolest sounding climbs in the world, and then you're there with Jacob, and he did a try on DNA, and you were the commentator on it, and you were incredible, dude. You were incredible, and now you're doing the best climbing podcast in the world, dude. That's your day. That's your day, dude.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, actually, yeah. It just missed something. The sand, man. With if if I sand was uh very was perfect. Yeah, I'm uh I'm here, I'm enjoying uh my my days on rock, and um the project is going very well. I'm actually very close to send it, and um yeah, for who who doesn't know, uh I'm trying Laraj the Dam that's actually like the route to the right to DNA, so is there super close, and um yeah, it's going well. I'm super excited. Uh conditions are coming, so yeah, I'm gonna kill it.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

So I spent all of yesterday re-watching the YouTube video you did on was it must have been last year of you trying it. And I gotta tell you, it's one of the better YouTubes I've seen, man. Good job on just making an incredible YouTube channel. I think you're new in the YouTube game, but just everyone listening, go check out well, what's your channel's name? What is it? It's just Gioplacci.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Yeah, I guess Gioplachi, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

So good, man. Such a good uh YouTube. But yeah, tell me tell me more about Raj the Adam.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I know like these American guys always struggle, speak uh European languages, but yeah, no, actually, yeah, that's like um a route opened by um by SEBWEN, and actually something crazy is that no one ever repeated a route from SEB One uh 9b harder. So that's crazy for me. And uh it's also like uh motivated me a lot to send this route. And um, yeah, it's uh all natural the route, and um it's uh hardest route I ever tried. I went here last year and the year before also, and uh yeah, maybe now it's uh first year I'm very close to do it. Uh last uh last time I was here, maybe it was still far. Yeah, so yeah, it's basically uh very uh weird route because it's 8C route, uh, but you don't get to pump because you climb very fast and it's not uh too long. And then you have uh this crazy booter that, in my opinion, it's very hard to grade with the rope, like um roots with uh like bootering in um in roots, but yeah, I would say 8b plus booter, and um so yeah, it's very hard. And uh yeah, like just as a booter, it took me a lot of session to do it, like just with a booter.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Can you describe that sequence on the boulder? It looks incredible. And actually, wait, wait, hold on. Before you do that, can you just talk about the Ramarole cave and just how beautiful that place is and and why is the approach bad? Is do you have to wrap in like the other places in Verdang Gorge?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So it's like a canyon, right? And um, it's amazing, really. Like it's an incredible place. Uh and um the approach is uh quite sketchy sometimes. You need to take some rope. Like a lot of people who use like uh, you know, um the harness and put like uh they put themselves in. We don't. So we need to stay like careful during the approach, you know. And um it's it's it's not that it's like long or anything, it's like I don't know, 20 minutes, 2025 minutes, but you're always very focused because you if you fall, you die basically a lot of time in the approach. So that makes approach wait. Jakob came in there he is in the background, yeah. No, yeah, and um so yeah, it's uh hard to you know to to talk uh or like to have fun during the approach or to enjoy because you're so focused to not die, basically. So that's why I say it's uh annoying. But yeah, then you arrive to the to the crag and it's actually chill belaying. A lot of people think this uh like hard to belay there, but it's actually super chill to belay, and uh the place is amazing, you have a very good view, and yeah, uh there is there are so many hard routes there. And uh actually uh talking also with Jacob, I wonder why not more people uh go here. I come here because I think it's one of the best crack in the world for sure. Like there are some very good Nine A's. Uh there is Larage, there is DNA, there are some projects, uh uh there is some Nani Plus. Uh yeah, there is maybe a Nani Plus from SEF that is maybe an NB. And um so yeah, it's full of things, and uh the climbing on hard routes is like not just Nibar's, you know. Like maybe the easy route is very like Nibar endurance, but the hard routes have like hard moves, yeah. How tall is it and how steep is it? Like what how long are most of the pitches? The wall is huge, but you don't arrive to the top. But yeah, the pitch are like uh the routes are usually I'll say 30 meters, so yeah, pretty long. And uh yeah, also they traverse a little bit because they follow the crag, and it's crazy. But it actually is so annoying also because Lalage is uh like you know, the cracks is like I don't know at 20 meters, and then you have to do this like 8b super long to go to the to the end, and it's very easy, but it has so many moves and can be mental, you know, like can be a mental battle. You know, I want just the because you could finish just like uh straight, you know, straight, you do still two quick drawing is over. But yeah, Seb uh wanted probably to keep going a little bit, and uh and yeah, like I'm not really scared, but um yeah, I need uh always to try, you know. Like uh every two days I try again, the last part to have in mind, and um yeah, I don't I don't want to fall there.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, yeah, it's so wild to hear that you have to an 8C route up to an 8B plus boulder, and then the outro is like another 10 meters of 8B, which I guess a 20. Oh man, see like I'm curious. I I know that 8B is way lower uh you know than all the stuff coming up to it, but like do you have to get that wired? Do you just assume that you're gonna be able to like do it on the go? Like, because I assume you don't ever want to fall on 8B after doing that. I don't want to start.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah, no, I I mean a lot of times you know I did the cra I fell and then start straight and do until the the end and always feel pretty chill, you know. Like I don't risk to fall there, so I don't know, like uh they want to say it, but yeah, I mean uh it's mostly on the cracks, but yeah, like um you people can check on my YouTube channel, like you said, I'm very proud of this video, and actually like uh the the video makers, it's like all uh all thanks to the video makers that uh did the video, uh the crimp films. And um yeah, I I I'm super happy also to uh to have opened my YouTube channel because uh yeah, I feel like uh Instagram is so bad. Yeah, I hate it, I hate Instagram. Um no, I mean for me it's just hard har hard to express well myself, you know, without like flex on Instagram. And maybe, you know, yeah, and and maybe yeah, you too, YouTube. I feel like I can be more myself, I can like show more my weakness like easily, my strength, uh, like have fun. And um, so yeah, I'm I want to focus on this and uh also um yeah, put so much effort on videos. Like there are videos ready, or like uh it's gonna they're gonna uh like be out uh on the next month.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

So I was just messaging with some people on my Discord because I sent the video. I was just like, you guys gotta check this out. It's really good. And what someone wrote is that it was a really good blend of being professional but authentic. And you know, some of the other people on the channel were complaining about how it feels like all climbing media is like the same. And I just I liked your video because it kind of reminded me of that lifestyle of I don't know, being with your buddies at an Airbnb, going to the cliff, and then like it's still super climbing oriented, but it just reminded me of how fun that lifestyle is. And so yeah, I mean, dude, just can't say enough good things about it. I really I really do recommend people check it out. Thank you, man. Thank you a lot.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, yeah, I love I love also like uh you know to show the people that you are with in the trip, you know. Because for me, like uh when I think about a trip that I did, maybe the first thing that I think is like the people and then like what I climbed, you know, like uh the people make make everything, you know. For me, I'm like I'm a social person, I like to stay with people. So I also really want to when I do a video show who was with me, what they climbed also. I don't know, it's nice, you know?

SPEAKER_02 10:53

I I a hundred a hundred and fifty percent agree. I love climbing, but if you told me I could only climb by myself, I could never climb with my friends again, I don't think I would climb anymore. I like it's it's it's all about my crew. I mean, yeah, I don't know. We have those moments. I mean, that's the fun part about climbing is that you're out there doing it together, but then you go deep on your project, you're up there 30 meters up, you're pumped, you feel very alone, and it's all on you. And I like that kind of duality of climbing. It's that's what makes it special.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, of course, man. It's uh thanks to God is also a social, like really social sport because it would be very hard if you if you're always alone in the crowd band, like I would not be here in Ragnarodo 100%, man.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

So I can't help but ask you about the commentary that you just did. Like you, when we're talking about new forms of media and your YouTube channel, I literally like literally just an hour ago, I was watching you commentate on Jakob's try on DNA. Dude, you're you're made for commentate. People loved it. You were hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah, yeah. I um yeah, actually, I'm not very good in climbing. I have a lot of other talent, but uh, I need time when I stop climbing, I can do other stuff, you know. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Uh yeah, you were talking about the whole duct tape thing and knee pads, and he was like duct taping, and you're joking about how much hair he lost. Like, I just it did make me think about just how crucial knee barring is at that level at a crag like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, sorry, fell down.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Don't you lose Jacob's AirPods, dude?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Yeah, no, I um yeah, I heard you. I heard you. Um, yeah, man, it's crazy. Like, um, yeah, this is a very interesting thing, right? So, yeah, we can discuss for hours about the about nippets. Because yeah, I was also talking with Jacob, for example. Um, there is like um, I don't know, a talk in my root. And what if like uh put like a piece of like a rubber with glue and they just stick to this, like because it's a like a crimp, you know, it's a toque with a crimp. So like if I have like a rubber and uh with some glue, I glue a glue there, like I'm gonna stick there, you know what I mean. So is the cheating is not because like there are some shoes, uh like um parallel shoes, no 510 shoes. It has like a no uh med rock also, yeah, yeah. Yeah, also, yeah, yeah. Uh so where is the limit, right? So now now the knippets also um yeah, I talk also with Adam. Uh like uh he said uh with the with black pad now and taping, silence will be way easier. He said would be like way easier. It's fucked, man. You know? And like it's something nice because I don't know, make climbing even more interesting. But what is very sad in 100 years it would be like crazy rubber, sticky as fuck, you know, crazy choke, and then people uh just started climbing uh flash border dream just because of that, and then like you know, you say, Oh, this weak uh like climber 100 years ago were so weak, you know. So it's uh this is sad, you know, because it makes like uh makes worse the performance of people before you. You understand? Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

It's yeah, it's an interesting topic because I even saw this video, this guy who was 3D printing different shapes for his knee pad, and he had some boulder project he was trying to do. It clearly was a knee bar, but he couldn't use a knee bar or he couldn't do the move with the knee bar. He made like a shape, you know, kind of like what you're talking about, like a lip on it, and then he could go no hands rest. And you think like, well, like it's such an interesting idea because in some ways you just want to climb. And if you choose to put some rubber on your that spot, like that's up to you. You know, it's not cheating, like the rock doesn't care, and so it could unlock harder and harder and harder difficulties. But yeah, what is the limit? Like, what if well, like why not just climb up a rope then? Like, why are we even like climb on the rock? Like, who cares?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy, man. Yeah. Rock climbing is so weird. Maybe one day, you know, it's not gonna be like uh maybe it's gonna be better. It's not gonna be about great anymore, you know, but more like uh how you climb the route, like uh and like with the videos and stuff, you know, because um, yeah, the style and everything. Uh you can also like uh I don't know, be doped now on rock climbing, right? And no one cares. So that's also like uh something.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I think for me the the important difference is that when knee pads got started more widely used, when I first thought of using knee bars, I thought of it as being like a no hands rest. You know, it's like, oh, you just b-bar and that's done. But actually, no, I really enjoy it. It's like it's it's really interesting. It makes it makes climbing more interesting, I would argue. So, you know, it's it's harder, it's more of a full body, it's it's different techniques, like so. I think it makes it more fun, and and that's like good technology, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, true, true. Like uh when I was in uh uh in Bavona for like one year, like I didn't bootrink much in my life, uh, just one season. I did with Pietro and uh we went a lot in Bavona where where there was like Dave Graham, you know, and like he climbed some crazy shit with the neighbors and was actually very nice. And like ease climbing, you know, for me, for me, like from my point of view, it's it's just it's very nice. It's an incredible skill, and uh I like it. Like it's just like uh a style that uh is a style like another style, you know. Like I I prefer other other things, but I like to watch and I respect people that use neighbors and I use out. I I put the fucking duct tape every day in my so you shave your legs, is what you're saying. Do you have to shave your legs? Yeah, I can put down my trousers now, but uh yeah, I will show you when it's finished. I'm so irritating my leg is so is all red, you know, because every time with the glue it go come out. So even if you're shaved, you like irritated your skin. Man is shit. Oh fuck.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Uh even though I do like climbing with pads, I do hate I hate like messing with stuff. Like, I just don't, I just want to climb. Like, you know what I mean? Like I get it. Um, okay, that actually uh brings me back to the crux and laborage to Adam, which of course I say it incorrectly. I'm actually really happy that you even were willing to do a podcast with a guy like me who's never even visited Italy. I've never even been, and you were you were hesitant.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah, true. Like um, I mean, now that you remind me, I'm Seth, I believe. Good news.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Now I get an excuse to go. I I get to tell my wife that Joe won't do another podcast with me unless I go to Italy and visit it.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

No, yeah, you have to go, man. You have to go.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

So I was watching your video, uh, and something you said really stood out to me both about the crux and the route as a whole. And you talked about how it's a really fun route and that the crux is like really athletic and consistent, and that like each move gets a little bit easier, and that it really made you love the route, and that that was important for you because if you didn't love a route, you didn't want to do it. So it didn't matter how hard it was, but if you're gonna do a hard route, that you wanted to love it. So I wanted to hear more about why that crux and why that route is so fun for you, and then why it's important for it to be fun.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, okay. So I climbed so many hours all during the year on uh plastic, you know, and uh like on uh human like uh creation. So when I go on rock, I just want to climb like something natural, right? I don't want to climb some with Sika or chipped, and uh so luckily I found uh this this route and I fell in love with this route because a lot of hard routes have chipped, like is fact, like uh many people don't know, but uh yeah, it's uh way more than what people think. But yeah, this uh route is completely natural, so that's what for sure made it so special. And uh yeah, is maybe like not uh the style where I'm the strongest ever, because maybe the endurance is not like a huge element in this route, you know. But still I think uh there is some like I I like the move, there's it's pinchy, it's like tension, so it's kinda my style in Bootring, you know what I mean? And yeah, the cracks is um the holes are not too sharp. There is not like one move crazy hard, there is no like one move uh morpho in any like way, you know, like it's never like that your toy is way easier or like this, and um so yeah, it's just like super enjoyable. You feel like you're like also doing something when you fall down from a try, you know, and uh and and and yeah, and the place, and the place is uh for sure make make it uh even better, you know.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

So why is it important for it to be fun for you to be willing to put a lot of time in instead of just you know ticking a hard grade that you know would be good for your career, man?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Yeah, this is um interesting. I feel like uh also I'm more a competition climber now, so maybe I have no not this pressure that maybe some rock climber has to like that they have to do like you know, 9b. So they need to search the 9b plus that suit them better. I have not this kind of pressure. I want I want to climb hard so much. I really want to climb hard. That's something uh I really want, I want to perform. Yeah, it's something I'm thinking a lot about these days, you know. Like um because this rooted name B slash plus, you know. And um sometimes uh in a project where you spend a lot of days, it's a lot of times came to your mind, you know, the grade, the number, like, and like I'm like, oh fuck, I wish it would be like 9b plus, it would be easier to be as the motivation, you know. And that yeah, you know, it's uh it's it's yeah, your brain, you know, go everywhere. But yeah, at the end, that I don't really care. Like, if I would be in an island alone with no people and there would be Laj, I would still try Laraj because I just like it, you know. I just want to send this fucking route, man. So I uh yeah, at the end, if I think about it, then I can like uh do it for myself, and that's when I enjoy it and I don't have like negative pressure, and um yeah, I want just to do these roots, whatever. Like for me, it's hard. I just I can send this.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

So I know you're more of a competition climber, we can get to that, but you're also really famous for being the third person ever to flash 9A, and I'm wondering if like, is this one of the first times you've projected something really hard? It seems like because of all your time at comps, you don't have a lot of time on rock. You know, have you ever projected something as long as this one?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, I never had a project like this. Uh last year, no, three years ago, I did uh Erebor. That was like my longest project, but it took me like 10 days, and these are I'm already like more than almost 30 days on these routes. Wow. And I'm like so much stronger. Like it for sure, like so much stronger than two years ago. I trained like uh way better. I trained on my weakness comp so like show like my improv my like how much I improved. So yeah, for me it's like a big step in my like um in my level. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

I can't believe no one has repeated a sub route that's 9B or harder. That really blows my mind. This one was 2019 is when it got put up. Am I right on that?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Yeah, I don't remember I don't I don't want to say bullshit. Oh a while though.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

I mean not like not last year. It's been up for a while.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah, I mean I mean a lot of routes of him. Like uh there are and also yeah, he opened route like uh in America, he did um jumbo supreme, a lot of route in French that are like uh in France that are like very uh accessible, you know, like they're not like I don't know. Yeah, I don't know, like uh yeah, I guess it's they're also hard.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh okay, I gotta uh ask you one more question on like a natural route, and I'm just gonna be I'm gonna be a dick here. Uh so what's funny is you spend most of your time on plastic, right? Like on like man-made stuff, and those like typically like flow really well. You know, they're not gonna like set uh 9B in the gym and be like, okay, it's 10A to like an 8C boulder problem and then you know 11A. Sorry, I'm using American grades, um, you know, like easy to like a one move uh crux. You know, it's typically like more resistant, kind of like interesting movement. And it's funny because you said like you really like La Rada Saddam because it has like cool moves, um, almost like a really well-set route. And that's typically why people have chipped routes is to make them flow instead of being you know cruxier weird, where it's like, ah, this could be like a great 8B if this one blank section just needed this one hold. And that's often why things are chipped. So, like, what do you think about the fact that the route you like is good because it flows like a chipped route?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's uh you know, like um something is special because it's is rare, right? So that's the best answer I can give you. You need to find like good routes that flow well and are natural, and then you found like a good route that you will you will remember forever. And I don't know, like for me, that's what I searched. Yeah, if people like something else, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

All right, that is a perfect answer, and I don't want anyone listening to think that what I'm encouraging is chipping routes and making them consistent. It was just like this thing that jumped at me where I'm like, wait, you like it because it climbs so well, and that's what people were doing. But um, all right, yeah, don't ship routes, go find the ultra-rare gems, and that's what makes them special. I like that. Uh

The Climbing Scene In Arco

SPEAKER_02 25:00

okay, Airborne uh was your last project, and it was in your home country, right? It was where you lived. Yeah, and so again, as someone who somehow has never been to Italy and never been to Arco or any of the amazing places, uh, just tell me what your scene is like there. What am I missing? Amen.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

So everything, uh, but especially the food. Um, no, but uh climbing, climbing. We are talking about climbing. Um we can talk about food. So I like food. Um no, Arco is very special. Like, um, okay, so I'm not leaving so like now I'm not leaving so much the vibe on rock in Arco because uh Arco is special from when they put the our training center, and then a lot of people like um came to like live here. A lot of like uh people from the national team, Adam, uh Philip, uh Stefano uh are there so we all train together and it's uh I traveled a lot in my in my life and I saw so many people training together, so many training centers, and uh I feel yeah, in Arco we have we found this good balance between like uh have a competition between us, but it's never negative, you know. Like uh there is no no one that uh ever went home because he tilt is tilted, or like uh because uh he was weak, you know. Like if someone is weak, you try to support him and maybe also to I don't know, set his style, you know, to you want a positive environment, you know. So I think this is the key of our success this year. Like uh yeah, me and Philip, but also Adam, we improved so much this year, and incredible. Like also Adam said that at his age, with all his experience, he's like crazy happy to be in Arco and yeah, because he feels like there he can really improve. And for me, it's like something incredible, right? To hear this from Adam.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Yeah, Adam Andra, by the way, for those who don't know which Adam you might be talking about, just just Adam Andra. We've I've heard that guy.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yeah, yeah, like you you you said also of the Nene Flash, it's uh so crazy that this year both me and Philip could flash Nene. Um it's something uh super nice for me. It means a lot because um it showed that yeah, like how our way works, you know. And uh I think um it could be cool to hear that from a lot of people. And um I should I think people should like focus on this, you know, create like a positive environment. And you can start like just helping the other, then the other will help you. And if every time you have like a bad day, you have some someone that supports you, it's gonna be always uh always good, always fun. And um that's the key. That's the key to to enjoy training and uh and improve.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, I was watching your other YouTube video of you training with Adam, and again it looked like the best day ever. You just woke up, everybody's nice little apartment, had a nice view, you're eating outside, you walked to to train, you got a coffee on the way, and then yeah, you and Adam, and I don't know if Philip was climbing that day. And by the way, just so people know, that means that three out of the four people who have ever flashed 9A were training together, only Magos was uh missing. That that's that's a that's a stacked crew to train with, man.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Like um, yeah, Arco is special also because it's a very chill place, you know. I live very close to the gym. So, I mean, be an athlete you mean that you are locked in. Like, you need to be locked in, you need to eat healthy, to don't go, don't go party, don't drink alcohol. You can't do a lot of stuff, you need to be focused. And Arco is the best place, you know, because like uh what you can do to enjoy like your life in Arco is like you know, I have a dinner together, go to the lake, go to the river, so all healthy stuff. And uh that's why really for me it's very easy to be locked in in Arco. I also need to go like around a little bit, so I I like to go. I went like this year to Paris, I went to Slovenia, I went to Switzerland, so I can change a little bit the environment, maybe go to a bigger city where you can also meet more people, uh, do other stuff like um yeah, go to cinema or restaurant because really arco like have nothing. But um but yeah, I I like this balance. That's like uh also uh key to be an athlete like balanced, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:29

I did a podcast with Adam Andra earlier this year, maybe like three or four months ago, and he was saying how great the scene was there, and just how he just felt like it was leveling him up too. So sounds like everyone's having a blast. Uh so you do a lot of travel because yeah, you are a World Cup climber, man. You made two finals this year,

The Late Start To Gio’s Climbing Career

SPEAKER_02 29:51

and yeah, just tell me more about how you ended up being a competition climber and kind of like your background and how you started.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah, okay. I really like uh to tell my story, and I I have to say I'm really proud of my story. Um, so yeah, I'm like from a very big family. We are uh we are ten. I have uh four um uh sisters and three brothers, and um yeah, so basically there was like a climbing gym close to my home, and you know, my mom can't bring all the child to sport because it's like then like her afternoon is like packed. So she said, What if you try climbing? It's just here, you know. So yeah, then I went to the gym and um uh I started with speed climbing. Man, that's crazy. Like I did one year, yeah. I did one year of speed climbing. I was low as fuck. Like I was less talented climber for speed ever. Uh because you also like I'm very short, not very explosive. And um, but yeah, I did it because my gym is actually my gym is in a school, so it's yeah, it's a little bit different than other gyms, and um yeah, they were very focused on speed climbing. Yeah, for example, also they like the biggest investment they did was like build a speed wall outside, and there was no like a lead wall, but it was just a speed wall. That's crazy. Like for me, it was like fuck, but yeah, it's okay. Like, you know, they like it. Uh there were a lot of people like super strong. Like now I think there are like because my city is very small and uh like uh 60,000 people, and there are uh three or four people in the national team of speed, so it's like uh like yeah, one of the strongest team, you know, for speed. So yeah, it's um it worked well for them, but yeah, then um I I saw some guys doing like uh some cool stuff on the bootering uh room. So I say, oh like uh let's go, let's write it, let's write. And um, yeah, then I I tried yeah, bootering. So I started doing bootering. And um I remember the first year or two years, there was like a team, like uh agonistic team, okay, and then there was like I don't know, a team with the weaker people, and there were two different coaches, you know. The best coach for the was the agonistic team, and uh like let's say the worst coach was for the others, and I wasn't with the others, so and I always ask, like, can I go in the agonistic team? I want to try their boot there, but yeah, I couldn't, they didn't want me because I was uh piece of shit. So um so I remember really well that you know the agonistic team was trained was training three times a week, and I was trained two times, but still I asked to the president if I could go the third day and just like be in the gym. So I remember they were trying a boulder and then moved like in another like wall to try another boulder, and then I went there tried the boulder, you know. Yeah, and at a certain point, yeah, eventually I they took me in this aggressive team. So I started with like regional comp, then I went, I was qualified for uh national um uh Italian championship youth, then I was qualified for Italian Cups senior. Then with the year, yeah, like 2019. I was my first uh international comp with uh like um uh national team youth, 2021 with uh the senior national team, then 2021. I also did my first semi-final, then then like yeah, I always grow, like I always grow. So something I want to say with this is like um I have worked hard, you know, but still uh it was very easy for me because I saw the improvement always. Like I imagine that is also very tough if you are like a young guy that started climbing at six years old with every youth comp, and then are at 18 you go in the senior and get smashed. You know? It's super hard. Like I I was smashed like from the first day, so I'm used to it, and uh also like my improving improving was like step by step, and I could enjoy it, and it always gave me so much motivation, right? So I'm very happy to start climbing that late, you know, and not be like super talented at the at the start, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

When did you start and how old are you now? Um at 12. 12, okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, and I'm 25, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

25, okay, just a kid, so young. Um did you play any other sports beforehand?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah, uh I did uh some some soccer, I did some uh I don't know, like you know the soccer you do in the swimming pool, like with the hand? Uh water polo, we call it. Yeah, water polo, yeah. Water polo. I did some uh okay, yeah, but was with the roller, you know, was uh not okay in the ice, yeah. Uh ice hockey, you know, was but was with the roller, you know, yeah. And then I did uh yeah, some swimming uh uh when I was younger. So yeah, I did other sports. Then I did also boy scout the Boy Scout, you know. Yeah, I did uh like I I my my family is very Christian, I'm not, but um, I did uh eight years of Boy Scout, and uh so yeah, I remember at the beginning was a little tough because my parents were very for them, it's very important the Boy Scout. So some comps maybe at the beginning uh they wanted that uh the weekend I was with the Boy Scout, so it was a little bit hard at the beginning, but then yeah, they always get like let me free. So at a certain point I decide that climbing was my way.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

So if you weren't amazing right from the start, what kept you coming back each time?

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Yeah, like I said, uh I don't know. Um I'm a dreamer, and uh yeah, like the after two years I was climbing. So maybe I did like one year speed, and then one year I climbed, and then my brother also like started climbing. And then together, you know, we started dreaming, and um there was not really like a strong like climbing scene in my my city. So we like started like uh I don't know, search um so I I I like I had phone also very late, so we had just a computer, and um my dad also was quite strict, like he wanted just we use for like uh school. So I remember sometimes with my with my brother, we like fake we were using for school and just like search uh who is the strongest climber in the world, something like that, you know, or like uh climbing gym in Italy, you know, we were searching on the web and just like say, Oh, like this gym is crazy. And so, you know, we start dreaming, we start like um yeah, with the motivation of the comp. I I start know more about climbing, and that's also something crazy about climbing, right? You always discover something new. Like uh at the beginning, I discover the comp, then I discover the lead climber, the lead climbing, I discover the national team, I discover like um the boards, you know, then the rock climbing, wandering outdoor, travel. So it's such an amazing sport, man. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

That's crazy when you googled uh who was the best climber uh in the world, who came up. I'm just curious, and because it seems like you're probably climbing with them now.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Yeah, I mean because I was like uh 14, maybe at that time when we started to do this kind of uh deep research. Uh probably was Adam. Was Adam, I think. Yeah, Adam was uh yeah, so yeah, it's crazy if you think about it also. Sometimes I'm like like this little kid that was searching Adam now, he's climbing with Adam and he's a friend. Like how proud proud he should be of you, right? But yeah, actually, humans never get enough, you know, and you always want more, you always want to uh win more comps, uh like sender druids, and you are never like you know that I'm not happy with my life, but it's always not never enough, right? It's uh hard to enjoy sometimes. Like it sometimes I struggle because I I know like if I send La Range tomorrow, I I um I think about it after bro five ten minutes, I'm gonna like like look at the guidebook and already search another route, you know. It's fucked, man.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

I mean that's that's the best part, though, is that there is always another one too. Imagine if you didn't even have anything more to try, and there's always more. Yeah, yeah, it's uh it's good. Yeah.

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SPEAKER_02 38:25

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Gio's Approach To Training

SPEAKER_02 38:57

So you were saying earlier how you were the kind of kid who said, like, I want to do three days a week instead of two. And I've heard this about you where you love to train, man. Like you push it hard. Uh and yeah, just tell me a little bit about kind of what you've done to you know get to the place you're at.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah. So I when I yeah, when I start like training, there was not really a coach or something. And for me it was like, of course, more I train, better I will be, right? So I was really like, oh like I start to go every every day at the gym, like no rest day, and I was saying, like, oh look at those pussies that are doing rest day. No fucking way I rest. Like keep going. And I remember I was doing uh like crazy, like yeah, all the yeah, all the days I was training, then I I had a coach, and also it was like really like okay, with volume, you know. So I started to do double session before school when I was like going to school or like right after school, do I I was like uh super locked in, and also it was like I was kinda proud of it, I was flexing a lot about this. I was like, oh, I'm never rest, you know. That sounds ridiculous to me now because of course it was not the best way, but but maybe I don't know, maybe I booted I booted like a very big volume. Like now I can train a lot, now I rest. Like I also remember one time it was already late, like it was uh yeah, I like it was like already five years that I was climbing, I was already in the national team, and uh, I did a post. Uh you can find on my on my on my page. Like um, I wanted to do 100 days without rest, but at the end I had to rest two days. Sometimes it was such a damp boy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah, no, but yeah, it was was very it was very stupid. Like, I yeah, then at a certain point I had injury, I changed coach, and now I train differently. Like uh, I also like do rest days, uh I focus more on like quality. But yeah, I am someone that thanks to all these days, I have a big volume, and I think it's very important to have a big volume. It's something that is for sure like one of my like um talent. I don't know, I don't know someone that trained more than me. But actually, yeah, I'm I'm training maybe maybe less than before because uh also my weaknesses are more explosive power, right? Power. So I need to be fresh to train it. So with my coach, uh he always try to focus on the quality and uh it's also give uh like it helps it helps me, you know, like uh it's um it's important to do that also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

In your video of you trying Laraj last last year, you made some comment about how you were you were worried that you were like losing fitness. And it's just crazy to me to think about you in like a 40-meter cave trying a 9b plus or slash or whatever it is, and that you were worried about losing fitness. Like, what does that tell you about kind of what you need to succeed in the World Cup versus climbing a 9b plus outside?

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yeah, yeah, this is very interesting because okay, so I think rock climber, like like people that do competition are way stronger than rock climber, you know. But to like um to stand a route, you need time, you know. And uh, for example, now that uh like I talk a lot with Jacob and he helped me a lot because I also seeing him trying the DNA, it helps me to understand better how to project the route, you know. And so, yeah, at the end, if you want to stand a route, you need to accept that you are gonna be weak in everything else, but you're gonna be strong on this route. So now I um I'm not trying any route like uh like last year's. I've just focused on Laraj. I'm just doing uh like two, three tries, then do even like one-one one, you know, like doing not really a lot, but of course I'm not losing like the fitness that I need for this route because the volume I'm doing in this route is enough to keep it actually to improve. So yeah, that's like uh that's a hard to accept to me because like you know, I know when I'm gonna come back from this trip I'm gonna be weak actually. But also I um I know that that's my goal, you know. Like I want to send Laraj. So it's gonna take what it takes, and I just want to send it. And uh I'm trying to to do less to to follow my my inspiration, my um like Jacob and Adam. That also helped me a lot to understand like uh this and um yeah, because of course if you if you came from the gym, you train way more. Like if I'm doing nothing here, it's crazy. And and I also like mentally need it, you know. Like uh be tired, I I like it. Um be um yeah, uh have a good session, like uh makes me very happy. So here I've I've not this. So mentally it's tough. I need to think a lot about this, you know.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

I actually think that was one of the big jumps in climbing. I started climbing kind of when gyms really became a thing, and it was just the volume that it allowed. You to do like just that you got to go into the gym and climb a lot where you know it's hard unless you like literally lived at the crag, it was hard to just climb a lot. And going indoors and having access to gyms just allowed a total amount of volume, like you got more tired, you know, you didn't have to worry about skin as much, logistics. You just got to like wreck yourself. And yeah, climbing outside, I mean, I'm not saying you don't get tired and you don't get good at climbing outside, just mean this sheer amount of volume is gonna be lower.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, no, in uh I think people don't don't know how much like we train. We athletes like have no idea how much we train.

SPEAKER_02 44:39

Tell me, tell me what uh uh you know a really good training day looks like when you're in peak form for a World Cup.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yeah, I don't know. Like sometimes uh I mean when we do routes, we stay like all the day in the gym, basically, from nine to five. We stay in the gym straight. We cook in the morning and then we eat there, and we do I don't know, uh four roots uh and uh like four circuits, for example. Um like yeah, we warm up like two hours and then we start with the at warm up, like maybe we do some weight or like some bouldering, and then we start with the roots training, and uh we do like super super good tries. So we focus like I don't know 20 minutes before we do a try, 10 minutes we read the route and then like go for it. Uh in the circuit is less like focusing before, but it's still like you really want to give everything, and you like we do longer circuits than after the roots, you know. So that's like uh like um like uh yeah uh what usually we do when we are training lead. For booters, we it depends. Like a lot of times we do double session, so we train the morning, and we can train uh five hours on the spray wall, and then we go home eat, and the afternoon we do like two hours of interval training or like a weight training, you know, this and uh yeah, so basically we train like yeah, seven, eight hours for like uh five times a week, and uh and two times we rest, or we do like like easy weights, you know, or like some easy climbing, like very, very easy, you know, just to recover.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

So it sounds like you get to basically do mock competitions, like a like almost like you know, like a fake one where someone sets a route, you guys are sitting there reading it, talking, and then having like really good tries. How often are you getting to climb on new hard roots in the gym versus like repeating it? Because I would imagine that the setting burden is high. Yeah, like that's hard to have new hard roots available.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Yeah, so like uh Italian Federation like now have uh uh has a lot of money. Um, yeah, because like um the Italian sport uh actually sports in Italy is very big, so we have like a lot of budget, so it's becoming very, very like good in ARCO. We have a lot of routes, so yeah, it's not like always we try onside routes, but we try to like what the goal is like to have like always one onside route every training when we do routes, you know, so like uh two onside route a week, three onside route a week, and then yeah, you focus, but it's not like that that you focus just when he's on side, you know, because the training is not just when he where he's on side, but you want always always also when you try a second try to be able to feel the moves. So train your your mind to feel you know, like you're in the wall, you know, like fake it from the ground, and that's a training that uh you can do forever, you know. You know, you don't get tired with it. So every time you have a different route, you need to imagine it, and uh and that's like a very tough training, actually, because you don't get tired, but you know, you need to lose lose time, put energy, put effort, you know, like you go you want to talk with the other people, but you need to focus and do this, and uh yeah, it's uh maybe not that fun, but but yeah, it's very important. So it's not like just physical training, you know, what you do for comps, it's like so much mental training, tactic training. It's uh it's fact, man. If you think about it, you try root on side, like it's crazy, no? Like you go in a in a in a comp, you do a final, it's on site completely. You need to be completely ready, completely all arounded. It's uh I think it's a very there are so many factors that uh like influence the performance. So there is so many things you can think in training, and uh I like it.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

So you're talking about doing a lot of visualization too, right? Is that what uh in my understanding? Okay, um, I really want to ask more about that, but I just want to ask really quick about doing on-site in comps like something that I always struggle with on on-sites is I'm cruising, I'm just I don't know, feeling good, and then like all of a sudden I like grab a hold and it's like way worse than I think, or like there's not a foot where I think it's going to be, or like I kind of botch a clip and like just like what do you do when your plan goes wrong? Like, how do you like because somehow like all of a sudden I grab even tighter? Like, I don't know, it's like I use up all my energy in half a second um and just ruin everything, like even when I was feeling good. Like, what do you do when things don't go as planned during an on-site?

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Okay, you know, uh, that's something very interesting. I don't think if uh someone ever talked about it. Okay, so I don't know if um people noticed it, but Adam slowed down so much in the comps. Like a few years ago, he was fucking running, like he was going out and running all the route, and now he's slowing down. So that's I think what the new style is. You can see the Japanese, you know, like this the style is not like you want to climb fast. You you want actually to climb a little slower and like be precise, deep breath, and like have a flow, like still you need flow, but not climb fast. Like if you climb fast, you're gonna do mistake because you want to feel the position, have a good flow, like you can see Alberto, Satone, um Neo, Neo is fucking so slow, you know. And but but that's so so you don't you don't do mistakes because with the new setting, like everything is like um you have also new holes, you have like creep in a volume, you have a foot that is like uh turn uh double texture, you have a long clip that uh from the ground you you couldn't understand how you can clip it. So it's hard, you know. Like maybe before was more basic. You you can just okay, I'm gonna run from the pump, and like I want to be less pump, as less pump uh as I can. But now if you do this, yeah, you fall. You know, like Adam can do still a little bit because he's yeah, amazing climber, but still he's low down a lot. You can see in the comps.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

So I'm gonna repeat this back to you to make sure I understand. It sounds like the setting before was almost easier to intuit. Like in like if I'm climbing a gym on like a commercial set, honestly, even though it's an on-site, I like understand how they set. I feel like I it's almost like I know exactly what to do. I can just kind of cruise. Um, but as setting has progressed recently, it's like the body positions are even trickier, the feet are eat like everything is just turned up a notch, so you can't really almost like flow without thinking. You have to like turn on your thinking brain a bit more.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, and uh, and of course, I mean like, and of course, you need like to train it and uh the visualization, know yourself very well. So I know, okay, this move I don't like, and that's also why it helps for me so much to train with Philip, for example, or Adam. Because I know where I'm weak, I know super well where I'm weak, so I know exactly like okay, this move I I'm gonna struggle, there I'm gonna be ready. This holds I don't like because it's like in this position I'm weak, so we know like each other very well, and that's also why flesh flash roots outside it's so easy for us. Like like onside outside is another thing, like you need some like completely different skill that I don't have. Like I I suck in onside, probably I fall in a lot of 8Bs if I try. Like I can't just overpower, like I don't have the intuition of rock, you know. Like, and also, I mean, like outside 9a is not comparable to flash 9a, it's way harder. Like what Adam does is like not comparable to what like me and Philip did. Like it's so easy, flash 9a compared to onside 9A. Like he is fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

So I was looking at your 8A.new scorecard, and you have like 9A flash, and then the next one is like four 9As in four days, two of them second goes. Um, one of them it sounded like you almost flashed to like right at the very end. And all of that, congrats. I mean, that's just wild. But the thing that's interesting is like like when I think about climbing outdoors and climbing first tries, I usually think of like on-sighting being the goal rather than flashing like uh like I mean I've flashed plenty of things, uh, but typically like on-sighting is what I end up doing because I don't know, I don't have anyone to tell me the beta. Like, why have you headed towards so many flashes? And like your I think your hardest on-site was like A B plus, maybe? No, and I'm sure you can do harder, but it seems like you're focused on flashing over on site, which I found really interesting, man.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Yeah. Yeah, okay. Um, so uh there are a few reasons. Okay, number one, I'm very weak on site, and of course, everyone likes to do things that they're strong. So I like flash. Number reason number one. Reason number two on site is very tricky now because okay, if I go there, I can on side route, but I already see some like photos on Instagram, some videos on Instagram, so maybe yeah, maybe I don't really remember, but maybe inside me I like know it's a like a craxie, so like okay, so maybe I don't know. I it's a question for everyone. On site still exists? Like, what if you know what if you like saw a post, you don't remember it, but like maybe your mind, yes. Like you don't know it, you know, but maybe like somehow you remember you have this imaging of the photo, and I don't know, like it's a tricky. That's also why maybe you know, if a flash is still like completely a flesh, you know.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Dude, I was really I okay, this is interesting because that's exactly what I was wondering. Is I feel like in some ways, maybe on-site kind of like doesn't exist, not just be there's like that, and then do I've done some on-sites where like the route is ticked, there's so much boot rubber on some. I like get to the crux, I'm like, well, I know exactly what to do here. Like it's obvious. Uh, it didn't feel like an on-site, you know? Yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And yeah, um I completely agree. And also, I don't know, it's more fair than on flash because uh for for me, it's like on site, yeah. Like you said, what if like uh my brother go there, tick me everything, brush like just like just uh like away the tick I don't need that's like a flash like outside? No man, it's not an on-site, you know. Like uh I don't know, like it's weird. I and also I trained a lot of flash because yeah, on site in comp is basically a flash, you know, like you know the wall, you know the holes, like it's basically like you do a flash. I'm uh actually like the feeling I have in a root is more flash than a flash and rock, you know, like it's more like I know exactly what I'm doing more than a flash and rock. So that's also why, you know, for me I always say like if tomorrow I go like in a tournament of ping pong world championship and I win, I'm not gonna be happy because I didn't train for it, I didn't prepare it. So I like be I like when I prepare something and then I have I I can do it, you know. That's like the when you do have a hard work and then you success, you have the success, it's uh very rewarding, right? So that's also why I I like Flash. And um something I also wanted to say about the Flash is like I know what like uh I'm like the one of the only four people that did Flash 9A, but I'm sure there are a lot of other people that can do it. Like it's not like it's uh like a it's uh like a big achievement, but it's not maybe that crazy, I would say. Because I think uh a lot of people like uh also, you know, the first time I tried 9A flash, I did it. And a lot of comp climbers can do it because okay, we have like a very high, like super crazy peak of shape, right? Because we train like six months for a comp. Okay, so when we go uh we finish the comp, we have a crazy shape, like way better than any rock climber, like so much better. So the rock climber, they they can climb hard routes because they try a lot, they're they're strong. Like, I'm not saying they're like not strong, but you know, a lot of can try a lot on route and they have like good tactic, train on the route, and they then can send it. But the level that you have after a competition, like the peak of shape, uh rock climber can never have because you need to train like six months in a row without go rock climbing, and it's never never gonna happen. So, like people like Alberto, uh Jacob, uh, I don't know, Luca Portigar, or I don't know if maybe Asian people don't really like they're not like a lot of people that can do it, but for sure, like a few more can do it, you know. Uh Yannick, um they can flash NA also. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

I I'm I'm just chuckling because I'm like thinking about people who are climbing 9C on rock and they're like, oh, really? You think uh we're not in peak shape that you comp guys are uh even stronger than us? I feel like Seb is like, uh hold my beer, uh let me show you.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

No, I'm I'm like I'm not I'm saying that for for them it doesn't make sense have this peak of shape because then like you know, you you lose this peak like in one week, in two weeks. So if you want to climb a project, it's better just to train on the like for example, in my peak of shape, I went here and tried a large, but the first day I suck, and now it's been like two weeks and I'm here. I'm way weaker on everything else, but I'm better on a large, right? So if my goal is to send another route, that's it. Then of course I bro, like Seb is crazy strong. Like we said, no one did uh any of his routes, so I'm sure if he wants if he set the goal of to flash on an A route, he's gonna do it. But the the competition gives like you an extra motivation. It's very easy to train for competition. You have a goal, you have a day, it's way easier than like, okay, I'm gonna flash the Disney, you know. For me, it would be also harder, you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:23

It's something that's interesting about those two styles of climbing where in competition climbing,

Gio's Love Of Flashing and What Routes Are Next For Him?

SPEAKER_02 58:29

you train to be ready for anything in that one moment on that day, where in hard outdoor climbing, when you have a project and you're trying to climb something that's the hardest thing in the world, you train to climb that thing. Like it's a very clear concept of what you have to do. You're like, this is the move, or these are the series of moves. But in competition climbing, like you just have to be ready for anything, like you're saying, which is really a different way to train.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

Yeah, completely. Yeah, completely. Like, um, I yeah, you need to train so much your weakness uh and the stuff that's uh like uh yeah, okay, that's also why I think like okay, comp climber that do booldering, maybe it's harder for them to then go on rock and sand super hard. And that's why we have like for example, all the Americans are crazy stronger rock, right? Like uh Noah, Zagala, Adam Shar, like they're super strong rock, and there are less people on like routes that are like stronger maybe to comp climber, you know. Maybe there is like I don't know, Seb and uh Jorge, but not other people that are stronger, you know, of uh people that do like uh comp climbing because yeah, it's for us it's still like very similar to rock climbing. What we train, we train still endurance, we tell we train still creeps, and I don't know, like comp good in comms nowadays is so much about coordination, so much about slabs, so much about slopers. So yeah, luckily we train like a weakness, but uh also as soon as we finish the competition, we are like in good shape for rock.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

Uh I want to ask one more thing about the the flashing of really hard outdoor climbs. I I also wanted to point out that it does make sense where on-sighting being kind of questionable these days, or you, you know, like you made the example of like what if your brother who knew everything about your style, knew everywhere you would probably want a foot, like they could just go and set it up for you. And so then if you recognize that on-sighting is kind of questionable, you know, like, or I don't know, like it's it's tricky, like if there's ticks already, or you can kind of tell, why not then flash and just be like, okay, I can do anything, or I'm open to anything except for trying it before. Uh, and so because that door is open, how do you prepare for a hard flash? Because you were just doing that, like just in the past couple of weeks, you were out there like trying to flash another 9A.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:53

Yeah, okay, so um also like why I want to flash roots. Uh, it's also because I um it's very fun. The process I really enjoyed, you know. You watch videos, you talk with friends, it's very like fun. So, yeah, like um the first time when I flashed uh the famous gem in France, that time was like uh I had a very good preparation because uh I I was in a trip with the other three guys, Ernie, my brother, and the other two, short like me. So it was very nice. We went one day there, I just watched them climb, then we watched some videos, they took photos, and it was a very good flash. And what is crazy about the flash I did in DNA is that like Disney is like basically HC, then you have like shitty rest and a crux, and then there is a crux, okay? And the crux, like uh um there are different betas, but at the end, my brother found me a beta that no one used it because it's like very sh with the shoulder and like for sure it's way harder for all the people, like 100%. A lot of people can't do it like this, but for me it's like my style, you know, like uh high feet and shoulder. So at the end I decide to to stick to his beta and they flash it. So it was like cheating man because my brother is the same height as me, it's exactly the same size, so it helped me a lot. So also, like I was very lucky to have my brother, and uh that was a very good flash, and um it was it was amazing, man. Like the I have all recorded in a video, uh very good video with the video maker, so I will publish it in uh in YouTube, and I can't wait. Because as soon as I take the jug, I'm like, what the fuck, what the fuck? It was like it was was such a great experience. And and I was like in a la Somme, and it is like a craig high up in the mountain was summer, so it was like a craig high altitude in the French mountains, and the like view is very special, like one of the best view, and um this this flash was just uh something so much also of sharing with the other guy that worked with me and uh with the place uh uh was for sure one of the best moments uh of my climbing career.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Well, it sounds like you just keep getting a little better each year, so um, I'm sure you have some some other ones uh in your sights. Actually, that's a good question. Yeah, you were saying how much you love Larage Autumn. Like, what are other routes that you think are ones you're gonna be in love with and that you have your sights set on when you have time uh to to go and spend more time outdoors?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Yeah. Okay, so I have like a list. Okay, not here with me, but uh I have a list of routes that I want to do. And for me, I just want to do this route. Like uh then okay, I can enjoy climbing in Arco, or like uh, you know, if you do you go to a crack, maybe there is a beautiful line and you want to do it. But for me, like uh there are some routes that first of all, biography. Like uh until I don't do biography, I'm not uh a lead climber basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:53

That's a pretty high bar there, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

So I need to do this to like um yeah, I can call myself a real strong lead climber, and then I don't know, yeah. There there are like uh bibliography is uh an MB that I really like. Uh we're gonna try this winter with Philip uh Planta de Shiva. Um yeah, then uh there is like uh some like historical routes I want to do in um in Italy. Then I want to climb first round that uh is cheaped, but uh but it's still like a crazy good route and uh like uh very historical and like it. Then uh yeah, I have uh yeah infratangle, I want to climb move. So yeah, I have this route that I have in mind that for me I don't know because of the line, because of the place, uh I just want to do those routes. So I have a list and I will do it on this route.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:46

I didn't look on all of your A Day, but I don't know if I saw anything from Seyuz there. Like, have you been to Seus before?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Yeah, so like um yeah, I grow not as just as a climber, but also like uh as a climber, like like my view of climb, you know. So that's for to say that the first time I went to Seuz, it was after COVID. Okay. So COVID, because I live very close to the gym, I sneaked in the gym for all the during the COVID, so three months of like locked in, like uh in all sense. So I was like there and training hard. And then I said, okay, I'm gonna do an NA, it was uh to 2020, right? So after I went straight to Seuz and I went to try La Cadre. It is like to the right to biography, it's like an NA. And uh and yeah, I just tried it for like two weeks with the worst like tactic you can ever imagine. So like climb every every day basically and uh getting worse and worse every day, and also get screamed tired. And maybe the last days I I did some easy routes. So yeah, I really I really miss I really want to climb there. I um that's also I always say also the only place where I like to warm up because you know, like warm up there in like 6A, it's uh it's just so fun. So yeah, it's always. Just crazy man, but and yeah, yeah, there is like uh jungle boogie, there is like the um biography, there is also a route. I don't know the name, but it's like do the right to biography that just uh series, maybe repeat it and read it 9b. Yeah, it was like uh crazy send back 9A plus from Alex or Adam, and um and yeah, then there is another 9A that will go from Intia open. Yeah, man, there is too many routes. I need to I need to send Faster Garage.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Yeah, I mean that's a good reason to flash that that's actually why I like on-siding or flashing. Is whenever I look at tick lists of people like uh Lara is the best example. I just keep reading her tick lists of she goes to a crag and I'm just like, oh, you got to climb it all. Like you did all of the cool ones. I just think that's a good reason to do stuff fast. Is like if that route's good, the route next to it's gonna be good. Like, I just want to do them all, dude. All of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Yeah, yeah. That's uh yeah, that's uh yeah. Well, I'm here also, you know, there are so many good routes, and uh I already like maybe the the the worst pressure I have to send Raj is because I want to climb the other route. Like uh sometimes I just uh want to send it because I just want to try the other route. And I don't want to finish the trip without trying because then I don't think I'm gonna come back here for a long time. I like already spend yeah three trips, so I just then I want to, you know, discover other places.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

Dude, on that video it shows your brother doing some of those 8c pluses. I don't even remember the name. They looked so good, man. They looked at the case.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

Yeah, chantelet. I think he's yeah, probably doing the saying the wrong wrong name, but is this 8c plus to the right? No, but this place is amazing. There are some sometimes there are like eagles. Eagles that fly super close to you on the crag. I just want to send large.

Gio's Competition Experience

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

I feel like I didn't emphasize that you're just an incredible World Cup uh climber in the multiple finals this year. So congrats on just that steady progression. Uh I always say this like I wish that they did a better job with sharing the competitors' stories. Like, as soon as I started talking to you, of course I just watch World Cups and watch you and just like are cheering for you and just want to see it. And so I hope everyone listening now is gonna watch and just be like, oh dude, I want to see, I want to see you have success. So um, yeah, I don't want everyone to think that you're just out there climbing outdoors. You're also a really accomplished World Cup climber.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:29

Yeah, it's uh no, that's something very sad. But it's not more like um not for myself that they want people to watch me, but it's more like you know, if people, young people watch the sport, okay. Of course, the sports grow, give more chance to everyone. Of course, I think climbing is an amazing sport, so I hope like more people can be professional and also yeah, more like young people can like start like the comp and everything. But yeah, like it's just it's not just like um they don't like share anything about us as an athlete, but also yeah, this live streaming, uh yeah, like how like there is no notification when the comps are, it's all like uh wrong. Like it's very like not that fun watching comps, you know, because yeah, but yeah, you do you don't know nothing, you don't know there isn't there is no insights, there is there is not statistics, you know, because it's crazy interesting, man. Like uh there are so many things that I can say to you like um about the athletes, like about the history, about like uh how they grew up, like uh the Alberto that uh did his first podium 10 years ago, then he couldn't do podium anymore, then he won Olympic, but he won with speed, so like more interview to the athletes, you know, like uh more like um mental uh insights, you know, like uh how if you were stressed or not. Like uh if you ask anyone like what's the character of Philip or like of me, of me, people have no idea, you know, if I'm what kind of person I am, right? That's also why I really like YouTube, because through YouTube I can do it, but yeah, it should be it should be about their own comps, but still, guys, like watch it because um uh you can see super strong climbers. The setting is very nice nowadays, that's I have to say, like uh setting improved a lot. You can see the ranking is always very good. That's something very positive about the world cup, so yeah, please.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

I I agree. I'm just laughing because I did that podcast with Ryan Sewell, who was setting for Coper, and then you when you fell on finals, you're like F F Ryan, he screwed me. It was totally Ryan's fault, uh, which I thought was hilarious. So hopefully he's listening.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

Yeah, I mean, bro, it was fucked, man. Like, it was like 90% humidity that that uh evening. Uh I I was wet. Like during the ISO, I had to tape my finger because you know when you do like you do a shower, like your your skin is so soft that yeah, like if you imagine to take a creep, you just split, right? That was the same I felt. Like my skin was so wet that I couldn't take a creep, or was it I split? So I taped all my finger, and it never happened like in an isolation. I I have a of course like a crazy good skin before comps, you know. And um and then when I went out, it was like a swimming pool, man. Was fucked up, was so bad. But yeah, that's like no one's fault, you know. It just happened and it's okay. For for all the other comps were very good finals, and um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

Alright, definitely Ryan's fault, sounds like.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

Um okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Well, I hope you do uh stuff on your YouTube to show behind the scenes because I'll say it again, just when I get to follow people and get to know them, uh it makes it so much fun to watch, and I will definitely be watching and cheering for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

Yeah, yeah. Also, I I I did uh I did a vlog in Copper. So that's like uh it's gonna be it's gonna be super good, this like 100%. Because also me and Philly both did final, so we have some interview of both, we have some interaction with other athletes. So yeah, if you're interested, just check check this video and uh maybe I do other about comps. Also, like yeah, Yania started, Alberta started. So maybe this also will help for the climbing uh community to grow and uh hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:14

It does, and we'll leave a link to your YouTube. But I also just wish that there was more of a push from the Federation to help you guys because it takes a lot of work. Um, and you know, your job is to be a professional climber, not a professional creator. And I know it's part of the job in some sense, but it's hard to do it all. You know, it it really is hard to do it

How To Go From Good To Great

SPEAKER_02 1:12:35

all. Okay, uh, I got I got one more question for you. Uh, and that's how do you go from good to great?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

Um, that's like uh that's the only question I prepared, I want to say. Okay. Like uh I I I knew uh so I prepared it, and um yeah, for me it's like um accepting the comparison with others, other people. Like uh to be great, to be the best you can be, you need to compare yourself with the other. I'm not saying like uh in a bad way, you know, just like doing the training, you know, um, because that's how you will find out your weakness uh uh mentally, physically. So I really I really hate when that's like my point of view, and maybe there are also people that can't handle it, and um I'm not talking for everyone, but I think most of the people should like do the efforts of uh put their ego by side and train with other people, and that's the only way you can improve. Like for me, I always want to train with Jacob or Adam, and uh they're gonna kill me a lot of times, and but there is where I understand like what I can do and what I can improve and give him motivation, right? But to to do it, you need to also be in peace with yourself, you know. Like But yeah, I mean, like if I train with Yakub and he's gonna kill me, it doesn't change who I am, right? I'm the same exactly athlete. I just learn a lot. If I do this training alone and have a crazy confident boost uh because I'm alone and uh I feel like I'm flying and actually I'm not, um, yeah, I'm gonna go home and say, oh, everything I'm doing is fine, I'm super strong, and I don't learn anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:16

Dude, that is really, really, really good. I want to ask one more question uh around it. And that's uh I I think it's really important to be honest and yeah, compare yourself to others, see your friend do a move easy that you can't do, or you didn't even like for me, sometimes it's good seeing my friends who I'm not as strong on like really little tiny crimps, and sometimes my buddy will do something on a little crimp that I didn't even think was possible. Like I didn't even, it wasn't even beta that I thought would work. And then sometimes I actually can do it like that, and so it like helps me understand what's possible. But the the thing I want to ask a little bit deeper on is that I also think that you yeah, you probably you are going to win a World Cup. You want to be the best climber that has ever been, or maybe I'm just putting words in your mouth, but I my hunch is is that you you know have high expectations and ambitions for yourself. And so how do you balance this concept that you're the best, you're gonna be the best, you're on your way to being the best the world has ever seen, yet still be able to say, but uh, you know, Jacob is kicking my butt um today. Like, how do you balance those kind of conflicting things?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

Yeah, it's because I don't want to be the best in the world, man. Like I just I just like of course, yeah, it's it's like if if it would be, I would be happy. But that's not what I think, you know, when I'm training. That's what not what I think when I'm dreaming, you know. I just want to to keep improving. That's my dream. Like uh maybe like I will be stronger, I will be I can do very good things, I'm sure, if I will be even stronger, but the only focus to me is improve. That's the only focus I have because the other thing I can't really control. Like, bro, if Sorato is born with like a perfect body, fucking sticky finger, fucking burning like um the hassle of uh B-pump and uh and trained uh like uh from when he's like one year old, you know, and I just start to have this old what I have to do, kill myself, man. Of course no, man. I just I just want to to be like uh like in peace with myself and um do what I can do. And for me, like to be happy, I don't have to to have regret and uh to work hard and uh yeah, I mean I I'm sure like everyone, if you work hard, you have like uh your success. Just don't think don't want to be the best in the world. Like it doesn't make any sense, man. Like it doesn't make any sense, like for me. I just want to be stronger than yesterday. If I like this, I'm happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

Giovanni, you're much wiser than me. That was great. Okay, man. I'm gonna ask you a couple of my bonus Patreon questions, so actually I do have more questions for you. If you want to hear that QA and other extra behind the scenes content from this episode and others, head over to patreon.com slash test piece to sign up now. Patrons also get their episodes early and ad-free. There's hours and hours of bonus content there to help you on your own path of going from good to great. Still not sure? There's a free seven-day trial for you to check it out. And to help the show grow, please share this episode with someone who would love it. Okay, see you next week.